The Effortless Yes: Interview with Julie Steelman

Do you want to reach an Effortless Yes when you’re selling?

Julie Steelman teaches how to do exactly that.

I caught up with Julie, the author of a new book called The Effortless Yes, and we had a great conversation about selling, confidence, and the impact that entrepreneurs get to make.

Fortunately for you, the conversation is recorded! 😉

Julie is an excellent and articulate speaker with a heart of gold, and I’m very pleased to share her insights about selling and entrepreneurship with you in this interview.

And remember, you can still save $682 by making a donation to Jodi’s voice – there are just a few days left, so get to it!

Without further ado, here’s the interview, 34 minutes for you to enjoy:

Interview with Julie Steelman

Here’s the full transcript:

Danny: Hi Julie, it’s a pleasure to speak with you and I want to thank you for taking the time to do this interview.

Julie: Thank you Danny, I’m very excited to be here and I really appreciate the opportunity to talk to your audience.

Danny: Why thank you. For the benefit of our listeners, Julie Steelman is one of the world’s top women entrepreneurs who had a successful career in sales working with top brands such as Apple, Microsoft, Honda, and Sony Play station. She left corporate America at a young age and retired to Hawaii, where she wrote a book about sales called The Effortless Yes. So Julie, there are a lot of books about sales, maybe you can start by telling us what makes yours different.

Julie: Yeah, there, you know, there are a lot of books about sales and, when I first started to write the book, I actually was writing one from my corporate America, you know, the hardcore big business experience, and those books have been written, they’re out there and Zig Ziglar and all those guys who have made a name for themselves, you know, and have kind of covered the topic really well. And I stepped into the entrepreneurial space, because I wanted to after I left corporate America and I realized that there were so many brilliant people, with fabulous ideas, whether it was a product or a service, and they had so much heart and passion and soul for what they did and they really cared about their customers, and yet they didn’t know how to effectively market or sell. Some people are better at marketing, but they don’t know how to turn that into cash in the door, in a way that’s really profitable, and that’s what motivated me to write the book. It was to help the people who were going to be the future corporate America, who really didn’t have the ability to have the kind of exposure, or training in this kind of information, and use the system that I used in corporate America that allowed me to really bring more of my personality into it, it was more heart-centered, you know? I was more focused on the customer and what they needed, and I really couldn’t find a book that answered those questions, and I think that this type of material, the way I’ve created a seven-step Effortless Yes selling system, really appeals to the entrepreneur, because they’re so close to where the rubber meets the road, it’s a different type of sales for them then it is for a sales person who works for a big, conglomerate corporation and they’re, you know, number two hundred and fifty in the food chain. That’s a very different type of sell and a very different experience, than someone who’s really representing their own ideas. And that’s what’s really different about this book.

Danny: Okay. Something I noticed when I read through the book is that the book seems really targeted at women. Was that a branding decision, or do you feel that men and women. They act and they sell in different ways?

Julie: You know, the book is a little more geared toward women, mostly because I’m a female, and I figured out how to sell like this in a man’s world, and to some extent it is still sort of is a little bit of a man’s world when you, as soon as you step into the business world. And there’s nothing wrong with that, I think it’s just that men are more comfortable there than women are. And so I focused it a little bit that way because I really wanted women to know that it was okay. And men don’t… aren’t so emotional about sales like women are, and I think that we can learn a lot from men, a lot of what I learned from men in the business world about where the balance is between being educational and being fact-based, and then we can learn something from women about really bringing in the personality and the heart-centeredness. So it is geared a little bit towards women, but I definitely think men would get a tremendous amount of value out of it, just because I talk about how purchase decisions get made, what the mindset of the buyer is like, how to identify what types of buyers and some closing scripts that anybody can use.

Danny: Julie, since you touched on the kind of the personality and mindset of the buyer, in reading the book, something that I found particularly interesting was your description of the Three Buying Personalities. Can you tell our listeners what those personalities are and how you came up with that?

Julie: Yeah, and thanks for asking! You know this is something that I thought long and hard about, and until I wrote the book I hadn’t really named them, but I always kind of knew. It goes back to a funny story… a long, long, long time ago I had gotten this little, done this little sales workshop. And this woman was training us in sales, and she would go and change her clothes and come back in a particular type of personality and she would tell us: “this personality is this type of buyer.” So what I did was remove all of that uncomfortable-ness. We tend to take what buyers say really personally, and I really started to understand the there’s personalities to this, people have ways that they make decisions and she sort of instilled this idea in me, and the over the years I kind of refined it. There’s a lot of personalities, there’s a lot of variables that go into this, but I boiled it down to three types of buyers, and it really reflects what their decision making style is, and that’s how they’re named. The first Buying Personality is what I call the Crystal Clear Buyer. There’s people who know how their mind works, they’re very clear about what they want to buy, and they’re very discerning and able to tell very quickly who’s going to give them that and who’s not quite on the mark. They’re instinctual and they’re intuitive, and when they’re talking to you as a business owner, it’s like an interview, and they’ll be asking you questions that let you know they’re sort of educated about the product and they have enough information, and they’re really trying to determine whether you’re the real deal, and the right person for me to buy from, is what you’re offering going to give me exactly what I’m looking for? They’re very discerning, I wouldn’t call them hardcore or anything like that, but they’re very intelligent about their purchasing decisions, and they’re pretty easy to detect. So that’s the first buying type. Is that clear, does that make sense?

Danny: Yeah, I’m very much that style in most cases, and I wonder if maybe we have different buying personalities and express them differently based on the kind of thing we’re purchasing. But that’s very much my style, and I mentioned to you when we spoke earlier that I’m engaged, I’m getting married soon, so my fiancée and I are shopping for furniture, and we have very different buying styles, and that’s proving to be quite an interesting experience!

Julie: Yeah, I bet it is. Well, the other thing is too, is you guys, something that guys have as an advantage – you guys are kind of yes or no, and you’re really sort of clear. Women need to process a lot more and “well, maybe” and we talk about it. You guys don’t talk your buying decision or what’s going on in your mind, you kind of say “yes, not now, maybe, not sure”, but you don’t talk about the details and women do, so we tend to take you on a roller coaster ride, and you’re like, where are you going with this? Can you just decide? We operate a little bit differently. But men or women can be any one of these buying types, and I actually think you have a dominant Buying Personality, and I think you have a sub-dominant one, and if you’re buying something that’s really outside your comfort zone, something you really know nothing about, then I actually think you could become one of the other buying types. But I don’t think it’s a regular phenomenon that you would become one of the others. The Crystal Clear Buyer is more of a bottom line kind of person, you know? Some people just know themselves better than others and I think that’s really part of the personality that goes with this buying type.

Danny: Yeah, and what you’re saying makes sense because it requires, you know that Crystal Clarity requires a certain level of education and familiarity. If you don’t know much about what you’re buying, you’re not in a position… you can’t be that clear.

Julie: You can’t, you’re right. You’re absolutely right and when you’re not that clear, and that’s something for everybody listening to be aware of, is, one of the signs that you want to look for when you’re talking to your customers and your buyers is that if there’s a lack of clarity there, then that means they need a whole lot more from you, handholding, information, education, you know, really understanding what their needs are and having that dialogue with them, and leading them through all of that, because they can’t make a decision without us, and we know a whole heck of a lot more about our products or services than our customers do, or they wouldn’t need us, you know? And if we don’t take the care and the time to recognize those signals and actually really help someone navigate their buying process and give them the right things to make that decision we actually create an unsatisfactory experience and they’ll probably move on to someone else who will do that, and then you lose the sale. It’s actually a really pivotal part, it’s a common mistake that entrepreneurs make, unfortunately, is to not really pay attention to the telltale signs that someone’s ruminating, or they’re confused, or they don’t feel confident enough to make a decision. That’s where you come in and you really want to take care with somebody when that’s going on, or they’ll just move on to someone else who will take the care. So I just wanted to make that little point while we were talking about it.

Danny: Well thank you for that. So what are the other two buying types?

Julie: The Ruminating Buyer is the second personality and you know, this is really someone… it’s sort of one or two scenarios. If this is a dominant trait for somebody, it’s most likely because they don’t totally trust themselves to make the right decision, or they’ve been burned in the past or they’ve heard too many promises that didn’t come true in the past, so they’re more skeptical – there could be multiple reasons why they’re more skeptical. And you’ll sort of hear their skepticism. It could also be that somebody… this is where, it could be if you’re buying something new, or investigating something you don’t have a lot of experience with or education about, you’re probably going to show more signs of ruminating or not being sure, because you need more time to digest the information, because you’re in a new bucket. But the Ruminating Buyer is someone… they kind of go back and forth, they say yes and no, they discuss things a lot, they ask a lot of questions, they don’t invoke a lot of confidence in the seller, they don’t give off a lot of “yes, I want to do this” type of signals. They’re kind of in the middle and they’re really looking for, it’s almost like they’re asking you questions and they don’t know how to articulate the questions, and again, this is somewhere that you really want to take a lot of care with somebody. And it’s really about getting them to see in their minds eye the result and the difference of having bought your product and service. And when you can do that they move out of this perpetual wondering about stage and they move into a yes. And that’s how you get the there, is by being someone that is really willing to take the time and the care and always noticing that they have a furrowed brow or that sort of tone in their voice that they sort of aren’t quite sure. That’s a Ruminating Buyer.

Danny: Okay, and what’s the third type?

Julie: The third type is the Indecisive Buyer. And the Indecisive Buyer is somebody who, they may come on really strong and they say yes, and then you think everything’s good to go, and then they say no. And then they say yes again and then they say no. They vacillate a lot. They give you signals that say yes they’re ready to buy, but they’re actions say no, they’re not ready to buy. That’s like, the easiest way I can paint the picture of the Indecisive Buyer. They almost have to make themselves be impulsive in order to make a decision, they want to make a decision, but they don’t really take the time to do it carefully enough, so they’ll push themselves to say yes, but then when it comes down to paying the money, or signing the contract or whatever needs to happen for the transaction to complete, all of a sudden they back off real fast and they say no. Because they haven’t taken the full time they needed to actually understand what they’re buying. And that’s just a clear symbol that you have somebody, that’s just kind of the way they process. There’s nothing wrong with the way you’ve sold them, you’ve just got to understand and recognize that you’ve got an Indecisive Buyer, and it’s very typical for them to go on a roller coaster ride, don’t let it diffuse you or dis-empower you. The thing to do is just say “Hey, you know, I noticed you’re kind of vacillating back and forth. Help me really understand what you don’t understand so we can make a clear decision together.” They’ll sort of like you stepping in and becoming a member of their team and helping them make the right decision. They’ll really like that you do that. They’re almost the type of person that needs to make a decision inside of a partnership. So that’s why it’s really good to sort of know these three buying types because then you know how to handle them and they don’t fluster you.

Danny: Yeah, particularly the third one, which is an entrepreneurs worst nightmare.

Julie: Exactly. And you know, what I want to say about that – one of the things I talk about in the book is the Hungry Buyers Syndrome. And the indecisive buyer is most guilty of this. They come rushing in, they found you on the internet, they love your testimonials, they think you’re the greatest thing since sliced bread, I’ve got to have it, I don’t care if it costs twenty-five thousand dollars, charge my credit card, and you’re like going: “What? Wow, cool! I just made a sale and I did nothing. Awesome!” And then you send over the credit card bill and the next thing you know they’re like: “You know, maybe not so much.” and you’re like: “What just happened? It was weird that they came at me really fast and then weird that they’re backing off really fast.” That’s because they are really excited about what you have to offer, and they tend to buy things impulsively, and then their head says “whoops, wait a second we’ve made mistakes doing that before.” So just know that that stuff can happen, it has nothing to do with you or what you did, it has everything to do with the way buyer’s process information, or motivate themselves to make a decision.

Danny: Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Julie, there’s something that you spoke about, or I guess, wrote about in the book that I really appreciated because I’ve felt the same way for quite a long time, but a lot of salespeople, or, I should say, a lot of entrepreneurs who are in a position where they have to sell but don’t see themselves as salespeople… they feel uncomfortable with sales. They feel like it’s being pushy, or tricky and convincing people or tricking people to buy their stuff, and the point that you made which I very much agree with is that assuming you’re selling a product or a service that you believe in, and you really believe in the value that it’s going to bring to the client or customers and the difference that it’s going to make in their lives… assuming you see that all of these things are valuable and important to them, you have a responsibility to sell, and to make them aware of those benefits and get it in their hands. It’s irresponsible not to sell. Could you speak about that?

Julie: Yeah, that’s a great question, and I know this gets really sticky for people, especially entrepreneurs, because this is our own stuff, right? I’m not working for some big business and it’s their product and if someone says no, then you try to work it out, but it’s not about you personally, because it’s not your stuff. You didn’t invent it, write it, create it, whatever. With entrepreneurs that’s not true, this is our baby, this is really close to our heart. We would never go down this road, and take on this much work, this much investment, and this much of our life force to bring something out into the world if we didn’t truly care about it. So, part of that starts with… we care so much about what we’re offering that we’re almost over-sensitive to people. We’re almost oversensitive to selling because we don’t want to be rejected because then someone’s calling our baby ugly, right? So that’s one of the things that really start it off. But here’s the thing: you started your business and created your product or service because you solved the problem, alleviated suffering or enhanced a life in some way, shape or form, whatever way your product or service does that. And you found reprieve in that. That became something that was so important to you took on this behemoth mission to start a business, to put it out there because you knew it could help people. And I think when we get through the nuts and bolts of our business and all the stuff that distracts us during the day, we forget about the importance of why we got into business and how we always wanted to help people and make their life different. And when we can really remember that and step into it, we actually have a responsibility to help people, otherwise we’re withholding that ability for them to have a better job, a better day, a better life, whatever it is, because we didn’t tell them about our product or service – there’s nothing pushy about that, or manipulative about that at all. It’s really about, if you don’t like sales, then forget about selling, start educating people about what you do, about why you’re the best at it, and about the difference they can start to expect if they use your product or service in the way that you recommend. It’s not a guarantee, but it’s basically saying that everyone else who’s done it this way has gotten close to what I’m promising you, or this or that. And just explain that to people. If you don’t tell them, they’ll never know. And they’ll never know how their life could have been better, and you in fact withhold an opportunity of improvement from them. So if it motivates you, look at it that way. I, for one, can’t sleep at night if I withheld an opportunity for someone to be better. All I’m doing is telling you about it, I’m telling you what’s possible, and I’m inviting you to consider it. That’s really all I’m asking of entrepreneurs to do in the sales cycle. It’s different in big business and corporate America because there’s a whole lot more stuff that goes into it, but corporate America has a neutrality factor in it, because it’s not our own invention. With entrepreneurism, it’s very close and personal, but you do have to educate people, and your website alone isn’t going to do it, unless you’re selling something for ten or twenty bucks. You know, otherwise people are buying you, and they’re buying your ability to take care of them, and in today’s world skeptical consumers are really buying your ability to have your back, have their back, keep your word and actually deliver what you said. And you need to convince people, because they only have your word to take until after they work with you, and it’s your responsibility to take that leadership role and tell them about it. That’s why I think this is such an important responsibility piece.

Danny: I agree with you. Julie, you touched on something very important, I think. You were saying, you know, unless you’re selling something for twenty dollars or something… I think that touches on an important point that you know, there are different types of sales cycles depending on what you’re selling. You know it’s very different if it’s a commodity versus something that is very differentiated and unique and requires a lot of education. It’s very different if you’re selling it directly to the decision maker or if there are other stakeholders. How do these factors figure into the sales process?

Julie: I think one of the things, that, as a business owner, you have to think about, I think it’s really easy to default to social media, to default to digital marketing, whether that’s your website and blogs and emails; definitely do all that stuff, it’s very important, it’s critical, and that’s what you guys do, that’s why you help people help businesses really grow with all the education that you have. There’s a point somewhere in your process and I challenge every entrepreneur, CEO, business owner, to really understand where this is, where the digital marketing works, and where it stops working. Where it stops working is where the personal touch needs to come in. So if you’re selling something that doesn’t require a lot of education, is a low risk item, it doesn’t cost me very much, it’s a luxury good and it’s easy for me to understand, you don’t need so much touchy-feely. But if you don’t fall into that bucket, you need to have a personal relationship with your customers. So if you, you know, for instance, use your blog and people start following you and like you, there’s a point in the relationship where you need to ask them to take it personal, or offer them the opportunity to speak to you. In social media there’s a point where you can be Facebooking with somebody and they’re expressing a level of interest – take that offline, get into a personal conversation with them. More sales happen by people talking to people. Don’t let the digital world have you forget that and leave money on the table. It does take more time and energy, but you’ll end up making more money as a result of it. And I think you’ve got to understand your business and your sales cycle, and the more complicated it is, the more human touch there should be. The more expensive it is, the more human touch there should be. Your website is something that validates you and gives people a taste for “yes I want to know more.” Once they reach the “I want to know more” phase, you should be talking to them. So that’s kind of how I measure it, it’s really difficult depending on the business they’re in. Some websites and blogs and social media posters are better at it than others, but by all means tell stories, get people involved, use these tools because they’re free. You know, ten years ago, this didn’t exist for business owners, you had to buy tons of advertising and it was expensive. But really understand where that point is where you need to insert the human touch, and it will change your business.

Danny: I think that’s very good advice, Julie. Were you always such a confident salesperson? I mean, what can our readers or listeners do to become as confident as you are.

Julie: No! I used to cry like a baby. You know, I was not as confident at all, and I got into sales because, you know, the word “freedom” was written on the wall, for me the scariest idea was graduating from college and having a boss ten feet away and sitting at a desk for ten hours acting like this was fun. Right? That sounded too much like a parental thing, and I was like: “No!” So I got into sales because I didn’t have to be in an office, I got to go meet people, I got to learn about their business, and I was always all over the place, in and out of all sorts of companies, which is a fascinating thing on its own. And yeah, I used to take the whole thing really personally. Like, I would, someone would ask me a question or say: “I don’t really agree with what you just said. This is what I think.” I would be like “Ahhh, they don’t like me!” And I would go down that road, or they would question something I said the product would do and I would take that as “oh, they don’t like me.”, or “oh they’re not going to buy it, I need to get out of here.” And that wasn’t working for me, right? Because I was just trying to end meetings and get out to go sit in my car and cry like a baby. And I figured out that people were actually trying to get into a dialogue because they were going through the decision making process and they were asking me questions that were actually giving me information about where they were in their decision making ability and when I could stop being so narcissistic and listen to my inner dialogue, and listen to what they were saying, I actually had the answers to their questions. That’s when the whole thing shifted for me. And I was really being in a position of being assertive, and that’s when the whole thing shifted. I think that’s the problem with the whole “I hate sales” thing. People think it’s something you do TO people; it’s really something you do WITH people. And if you shift that attitude it makes the whole thing seem, everybody gives advice and educated and offers support and exchanged ideas. Everybody does that all day long! The only difference is at the end of it you ask the customer if they want to join forces with you.

Danny: So how does that tie into your concept of The Natural Ask?

Julie: So I think everybody has their own style, or their own way of asking for the business. And I think the thing to do is to not adopt a personality that you’ve either heard about, been told about or witnessed, and not been yourself when you asked, because then all that nervousness or the anxiety about it or the awkwardness comes through, and that’s actually a very delicate moment in the buyer/seller relationship, and like I say in the book, when people are making their decisions, the last thing they’ve got to go on after they’ve evaluated everything is a gut feel, and that’s an energetic sort of vibe they pick up from you. And if at that pivotal moment, you’re asking them “so, you know, we’ve talked about a lot of things, I’ve answered all of your questions, it sounds like this would be a great fit, I’d love to work with you, what do you think? Are you ready to sign up?” If you’re nervous when you do that, or you get awkward, it gives the buyer… all of a sudden they start to pick up on something and they go “ehhh, the person’s not too sure, maybe I’m not too sure.” So your un-sureness makes them unsure, and that’s not what you want to have happen. You want to be really confident because they’re looking to do business with you, but they’re looking for you, they’re paying for you to be the leader in the relationship.

Danny: Yeah, you have to reassure them otherwise you end up freaking them out.

Julie: You end up freaking them out, it’s that simple. And then they’re going to get nervous, because until people have done business with you they can only trust… take you at your word. That’s all they’ve got to go on.

Danny: You’re absolutely right. And even if there are testimonials and examples and…

Julie: Yes.

Danny: It still all… all it does is kind of, it shores up that taking you at your word, but until they’ve had a firsthand experience, they don’t really know.

Julie: You’re absolutely right, and that was really well said. Those are pillars of support. People, especially if it’s costing them a significant amount of money, it might be, you know, that five thousand dollars might mean a whole heck of a lot to somebody, so they’re going to be real testy about how they make that decision. I think that’s fair. I think that’s totally fair. And it’s like, the testimonials, your website, your blog, all that is support that builds the confidence. And you know they say that people buy from who they know, like and trust? And I think that’s true. I think the challenge with that is, especially with social media, if that get’s mistaken as “oh, I need to be charming.” And actually, I think that will hurt you more than that will help you. What I think it means, for me, it means they need to respect you. They need to see you as a leader. They need to see you as someone who has their back, full of honesty and integrity, and that you will fulfill on what you have agreed you would fulfill on. People are much more interested in that than in being your friend, then loving your house and your dog and having wine parties. Fine, do all that stuff, but that shouldn’t be what closes deals. Because you’ll have very temperamental relationships if you do. Respect is what will put money in the bank in a way that will allow you to become profitable.

Danny: I think that’s very well put. Julie we’re coming up on the half hour, so I want to start winding this down, but…

Julie: Yes.

Danny: …there’s one question that I try to ask everyone that we interview on the blog, and that is, if our listeners have heard you, they’ve heard you speak for the last half hour they really connected, and what you’ve explained really resonated with them and they’re thinking: “You know what, I need to apply some of this stuff, I need to put it into practice in my business.” And they take it seriously enough that they say: “You know, I’m going to clear my afternoon; I’m going to clear three hours this afternoon to work on applying this stuff.” What should they do with those three hours?

Julie: That’s a great question. I think one of the first things that really is a must is to figure out what your sweet spot is. What is it, and how is it, that you do what you do, that makes you completely and totally unique? So, there can be a lot of people that sell blue widgets, but why should I buy my blue widgets from you? And, is it because of your customer service? Is it because you’ll save me money? You know, what is the sweet spot, and I think really spend some time on this. Is it the way you do what you do, is it the how you do what you do, is it the quality that you do what you do? And really understand that, and boil it down to statements that would be very attractive to a customer and a buyer. And make sure that your staff knows all of that, inside and out, and if you need to, take an hour of the three hours and do a staff meeting about this, and answer the question: What we do best is? The reason we do it the best is? And just keep answering that until you get it really succinct. That is the most powerful sales tool that you have, and it will invoke confidence in you and in your team whenever you’re talking to a customer, because confidence has a lot to do with making the sale. The second thing I would do is, I think you’ve got to make a sales plan. How much money do you want to keep in your business? I don’t mean make, I mean keep. Over and above what everything costs, and really spell out what that number is, and is it by the end of the year, is it between now and September, is it by December, is it in the next 18 months, and then commit to that number, and don’t edit it, and don’t question yourself about whether you can or you can’t, that’s not the point. The point is to go for it. The point is not about whether you can or you can’t or it’s doable or not doable, because that question is not answerable, the point is that you go for it. If it’s two hundred and fifty thousand, great. So if you want to keep two hundred and fifty thousand, or you want two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in profit and you want it in the next six months, and your business is going to cost you a hundred and fifty thousand dollars in the next six months, add those two numbers together, that’s how much money you want to generate in the next six months. Then set that aside, and I want you to take out four blank sheets of paper, and I want you… what I call “money maps.” Make a money map and write four scenarios, four different scenarios about how you can make, let’s see two fifty plus one fifty is 400K. How you can make that 400K. Four completely different scenarios, and then I want you to pick one of them and I want you to go for it. That’s how I would spend three hours.

Danny: Julie, that’s fantastic advice. I really like, I mean, I’ve heard, you know, elements of this from other people in the past, but I haven’t heard the idea of creating your four scenarios, what are four different ways for me to get there, and then taking the one that looks best. Because, I think that’s a really cool idea, and I appreciate you sharing that with us.

Julie: Absolutely, and I tell people, make one of them really outrageous, like, Steve Jobs calls me and wants me to work on blah-blah-blah for him or invent blah-blah-blah for him, or Oprah calls me, and say I’m in the coaching business, or I’m a consultant, and she wants to pay me five hundred thousand dollars a year to have my exclusive time to help her figure out how to get O Network to make more money. Right? Make one really crazy, because you never know what’s going to happen. But definitely do it, I’ve seen more people do that and they’ll do stuff like look at the four hundred thousand dollar number and go: “Oh my God, I’m never going to be able to do that. I don’t know how to do that, that’s not doable.” It’s not about the number, it’s about doing it, it’s about taking the action. And then they take the money maps and they look at them and they laugh, going “that’s so ridiculous, I can totally do this.” I see it happen a million times, so if people will take that advice it will really make a difference and they’ll get re-invigorated.

Danny: Well, listeners, you know what you’re doing for your three hours this afternoon!

Julie: Exactly!

Danny: So one point of administrivia before we wrap up. I want to remind our listeners and our reader’s that until the 15th of August we’re running our campaign for Jodi’s Voice. Jodi’s Voice is an organization that supports the change of legislation around stalking in the United States. The way it is right now, if a woman is being stalked, there is nothing she can do legally, until after she’s been attacked. You know, a guy can sit outside her house and dial her phone number and there is, she has no legal recourse, the police won’t intervene until she’s actually been attacked. And we want to help to change those laws. So, our program, Mirasee is a, almost a nine hundred dollar training program, it’s a hundred and fifty dollars a month, or a hundred and forty seven a month for six months. If you’ve been waiting to get this program, but you’re not sure if you can afford it, until August 15th, if you go to Jodi’s Voice and make a two hundred dollar donation and forward that proof of donation to us, you can get free access to Mirasee, the whole program, everything. So this is a great time to do it, and if you don’t want Mirasee, you should still go to Jodi’s Voice and make a donation. Julie, I want to take the time to thank you, very, very much for taking the time to do this interview, I’ve enjoyed it, I know that it’s going to be very valuable to our listeners and I want to wish you tons of success with your new book, which we’re going to link to in the transcript and the readers should, you know, go to Amazon and buy it.

Julie: Thank you so much for this opportunity, I love what you’re doing for Jodi’s Voice, you know that’s a really powerful part that we have as entrepreneurs is to give back and support those causes that need us behind them, and I truly believe in doing stuff like that, I think you guys are doing a great thing. Thank you for the opportunity.