Course Lab – Episode 104
Sacred Strategy: Even Intuition Needs a Spreadsheet (Patricia Peters)
Abe Crystal: I think long term is the key word there for me. I mean, you know, she talked about the importance of having a long term vision and letting that guide you. I think that it’s definitely important in an area where there are, you know, a lot of distractions, there’s a lot of shiny objects.
Ari Iny: Hello and welcome to Course Lab, the show that teaches creators like you how to make better online courses. I’m Ari Iny, the director of growth at Mirasee and I’m here with my co host Abe Crystal, the co founder of Ruzuku.
Abe: Hey there, Ari.
Ari: In each episode of Course Lab, we showcase a course and creator who’s doing something really interesting either with the architecture of their course or the business model behind it, or both. Today we welcome Patricia Peters. She’s a modern shaman, former athlete and founder of Women Unlimited International. Her programs blend ancient wisdom and neuroscience to empower women towards inner liberation and self actualization. Welcome, Patricia.
Patricia Peters: Hello, Ari. Hello, Abe. Thank you so much for having me.
Ari: Of course, the question that I always kick these off with is could you give us a 30,000 foot view of yourself, how you came to be where you are and how you came to the world of online courses.
Patricia: So way back then I was a dancer, I was an athlete and my first transition into my first company was to have a gym and high end lifestyle club. I’ve been doing this for around 15 years and then I stepped into my next phase of purpose and higher calling which was teaching guiding women entrepreneurs. It was a mix of business coaching and mentoring because I used to run a big company for a gym so we had like 35 people, staff employee members and I was in charge of, yeah, basically all of this stuff. So I was starting to guide and coach women entrepreneurs basically on the business side and also on the personal development and spiritual side. So that was of course before the online world.
Ari: So around when was this?
Patricia: That was roughly between the years of 1990 to 2006.
Ari: Excellent.
Patricia: And then there was the transition phase between 2006 and 12 and in 2012, I fully stepped into the online online space. Before that it was more in person or a combination, a hybrid of online and offline. Since 2012, roughly it’s almost 100% online. My teachings in the spiritual and in the personal growth realm, they date back until the 80s. So back when I was in my sports career and we used all those mental techniques stuff, which back then was considered pretty weird. But I was fascinated about the good results that I got and I started applying them to every part of my life. This is why I walk my talk. I’ve benefited hugely from it. I see the benefits in my clients, of course, and how it can make life so much easier and joyful for you.
I’m a lifetime learner, so I was also interested in the science behind this. You know, one thing is the spiritual side and the kind of, yeah, you need to believe this, which is not satisfying. So I took a training to become psychotherapy practitioner, holistic psychotherapy practitioner, which is kind of a specialty here in my country, where I live. But you also need to do a board exam. So I did this to learn all about the brain and the psyche. So I have the scientific background, otherwise I’m not too woo, let’s phrase it like this. And this is my passion.
Ari: Awesome. And so tell us a little bit more about the program that you’re currently running. So it’s 100% online. What are you working with people on specifically? What’s the journey that you take them through?
Patricia: So I work with high achieving visionary women and many high achieving women feel that they lost themselves on their path to success. They have this wonderful life, but still feel some avoid inside. And they’re yearning for meaning and fulfillment beyond the material reality. This is where I come in. I guide them to unleash their hidden gifts and potential. And I showed how they can follow their higher calling without sacrificing their success because this is a huge fear among people that they lose everything they worked so hard for. And that’s an outdated paradigm. That’s not true. The opposite is actually true. When you follow your purpose and your higher calling, success is inevitable.
Ari: That’s amazing. And so what is the format in which you work with them? Is it an online course? Plus there’s also coaching? How do you take them through that?
Patricia: Yes. So it’s an online course with group coaching and at specific points, one on one coaching. Also included is community is a Facebook group. Of course, the Facebook group is private because we are dealing with intimate issues, sometimes what I call the feminine wound, what some people might call traumatic experiences or trauma. So it’s very important to provide a safe container where they can really show up and don’t need to be afraid of judgment or rejection. I love to work in this hybrid. So basically the teachings are in the online course and then all the personal development and the individual guidance happens during the Q and A calls, the office hours, the group calls, and then in the one on ones where we can dive very deep.
Ari: One thing that’s standing out to me and something I’m wondering is the level of vulnerability that they need to come to this with in order to get the results that they’re hoping for. So I’m curious as to your process around creating that safe container, both in creating it and also encouraging them to open up and get them to a point where they are able to be vulnerable and grow.
Patricia: So of course it has a lot to do with trusting each other. Before they open up, I guide them very carefully. So first of all, let’s say we are checking very carefully if it’s a fit, not just a fit between my client and me, but also with the group. And being in business for so long, you get a feeling for this. So you can really trust your intuition and watch for the red flags. And also I’m very honest if I can help them or not. When I can’t help them, I say, okay, I’m the wrong person. Maybe I can make a referral if I know someone or I can give them some tips on what to Google or who to look for for. So that’s the first step.
And then of course, we do not dive right into the deepest recesses of the soul or of the mind. That’s a very careful process. Of course, with a lot of preparation, I carefully guide them through and then the opening happens naturally. Especially in a group of like minded women. They feel the vibe. A lot of my clients, they come to me and they say, you know, oftentimes I have the feeling that not even my closest friends get me. They think I have this wonderful life. So I keep quiet. And once they come into the community and they start interacting with the other wonderful women, it happens naturally.
And of course, I never, never, never force someone. It’s always the respect and the safe space. When they open up, I’m there, I guide them, we hold space. It’s either me in the one on one or even in the group. The vibe in the group is wonderful. Some say it’s magical, like a soul tribe, like sisters from different mothers.
Ari: That sounds really special.
Patricia: I love it.
Ari: Is the course cohort based? Is it essentially people can enter at any stage as long as they’re a good fit, and then they go through a curriculum on their own. What’s the process there?
Patricia: So first when we meet, it’s cohort based. And then later on, if they want to continue working with me in our ecosystem, in my world, then I have ongoing programs like memberships or also from next year on, retreats.
Ari: That’s great.
Patricia: So that we can move together on this journey.
Ari: Okay, so going back to something that you were saying earlier that you’ve been in business for a while, you’ve met a lot of people, you. You have a very deep experience. And so there is a certain clarity that you have a gut check of, you know, is someone a good fit or not? And you have that sense at this point?
Patricia: Yes.
Ari: For someone who’s maybe starting out or at earlier stages in the process, could you give a few thoughts around what are you looking for?
Patricia: You mean what I’m looking for in a client or to figure out if it’s a good fit or not?
Ari: Yes, exactly. So in a client that could be a good fit for a group, for a program that needs that level of vulnerability in order to really affect change for people.
Patricia: So, of course it starts with you. You need to be crystal clear on what you provide, on your core values, on your red flags. You also need to be crystal clear where your skills stop. For example, when I send someone who has massive trauma and needs therapy, I would never start working with them, especially online, maybe in a practice, because I’m also a psychotherapist, but then I would need them with me in the practice in case something happens. So the responsibility starts with you. You also need to be crystal clear in how you want to work in terms of how big is the cohort, for example, what are you able to handle so that your quality doesn’t suffer and stuff like that.
And once you’re crystal clear about that, the next thing is honesty, of course, you know, being honest enough to say no if you can’t help them, or if you feel that might not be such a good fit or this person might need a different service. And then you have to be honest and tell them. And other than that, really tune into yourself and listen to your intuition. When you are clear, your intuition speaks. Of course, when you are yourself confused, then you either can’t hear your intuition or misinterpret it. But once you’re clear and have high standards of core values and ethics, you just know. And it’s sometimes hard to describe.
Ari: Yeah, that’s fair.
Patricia: But stay true to that.
Ari: And I appreciate the criteria that you gave with the understanding that some bit is hard to describe and hard to bring across. But I think there’s a very helpful start.
Patricia: I mean, it’s a difference when you work in the. For example, so I work in this intangible, invisible realm. So if you teach about tech, of course, that maybe is not such a big matter, but in my vulnerable space, yeah, I think it’s important. Yeah, yeah.
Ari: And I appreciate what you said also about, you know, honesty around, if you do feel like it’s not a good fit, if you’re in a situation that maybe you just, you really want to help them, even if you’re not the best person, or maybe you kind of need a client right now, different reasons, but still sticking to that and being honest about whether they would actually be a good fit. Because down the road, if they’re not, it will not end well.
Patricia: It’s a recipe for disaster. Also for your cohort, it’s not just about you and this one client, it’s also about the cohort. So it’s basically three aspects. The new client, the cohort, and yourself.
Ari: I have some questions about marketing and we’ll get to that. Abe, do you have any questions about anything we’ve talked about so far?
Abe: Do you have anything else you’d like to share about evolving this course over time or lessons learned that you think would be helpful for other course creators or coaches? From when you first started working on this online course idea to where you are today?
Patricia: The most important thing is to not try to figure out everything in one setting. Don’t try to figure everything out in theory because that takes you down an endless long road. You don’t get any income and you do not know if the content actually lands. So usually what I do when I put something new together, of course I have this vision and a rough outline about the content that I want to offer and about the journey. I break up the journey into modules and create what I call pop up workshops. Each module is a pop up workshop or several pop up workshops. I test it if it lands. If people are interested, then I run some, might call it a beta program or a pilot program.
But usually I do the workshops and then I also get a feeling for it because for you as an expert, everything is easy. And I remember once I did a pop up workshop, half a day, four hours. And the pop up workshop not just turned out into becoming a module, but an entire course. And this feedback you can only get when you work with clients. You get the feedback. Okay, this was too much. This takes longer time. Or you can throw out this part of the content because it’s nice to have, but it’s overwhelming. So the best thing is basically to co create.
Abe: Yeah. Thank you.
Ari: So something that I was curious about, the kinds of women that you work with, these high level women, a lot of people are marketing to them. They tend to be people who are difficult to reach at times. So I’m just curious as to what Is your process for finding clients, getting them into the program? How do you go about filling a cohort? Whatever you could share there would be super helpful.
Patricia: So I do not do any hate ads on social media or stuff like that. My clients usually are not on social media. However, I do a lot of organic content marketing on different platforms. I do a lot of networking and JVs, for example, summits, podcasts, giveaways, referring, list swaps, stuff like that. A lot of my new clients come from referrals. From the beginning, it was just referrals, and then it morphed into JV-ing and doing basically giveaway summits. Podcasts. Yeah.
Ari: And so when you are starting out, as you said, referrals, it was a shift from the work that you were doing before owning a gym to this kind of work. So I’m curious for people who are just thinking about, okay, I’m starting this new adventure. I might have the expertise to teach and to support people in this, but making that shift can be scary and they might not know where to start. So your thoughts on that?
Patricia: Yeah, sure. So for me, luckily, the shift happened very organically. The gym I owned was a high end gym and lifestyle club. My type of people were there, a lot of entrepreneurs, and we were also running groups and projects with local entrepreneurs. So what encouraged me to take this brave step was that people did not just come to me for the workout. They shared everything with me and they wanted my advice and guidance on all kinds of personal stuff that came very natural to me. And then they started to refer not just the gym, but, oh, you need to talk to Patricia. She might help with this and that. It was kind of a fluent decision. It wasn’t like from day one, okay, now I’m shifting, I’m doing this. So I grew into it. And yeah, nowadays I think it can be very hard and scary to jump all in.
Ari: And I also just appreciate the process that you went through. Yes, it was organic, but you were paying attention.
Patricia: Yeah.
Ari: Suddenly the business shifted. You made that shift, but you were paying attention to what was coming to you.
Patricia: Yes, in alignment. And that had to do with my own spiritual journey. That journey started in the 80s, more than 40 years ago. There is intuition and gut feeling. However, this honesty we talked about being clear and also not chasing every new thing out there with the Internet and everything, that’s even harder to keep focused. Who am I? What are my gifts? Sometimes opportunities are just distractions in disguise. So we have to be very careful on that.
Ari: Awesome. So as far as questions, Abe, I Don’t know if there’s something more you want to ask, anything more to add? Question?
Abe: Yeah. What’s your framework for determining what’s an opportunity and what’s a distraction?
Patricia: So first of all, don’t jump into anything as soon as it turns up. Try to step back into the observer position and then wrap your head around it. Does it fit into my long term vision? Does it support my vision or is it just a nice to have? What are my reasons why am I attracted to this? Be brutally honest. And if it doesn’t support your long term vision, then usually it is a distraction. And also does your, does your desire, does it come from scarcity or lack mindset? So I need this, I need this. Or is it kind of a push or is it a pull, a natural flow? Oh, this feels nice. This feels in alignment. And then of course, outside of all the intuition of all the softness skills, be realistic. Like do your math.
Ari: Can you speak a little bit more to that? Do your math and make sure that.
Patricia: Okay, so this is. Yeah, maybe a little funny. So before I went down my entrepreneurial road, before I even became an athlete, I’m actually a math teacher. So this is why numbers and math comes easy to me. And almost immediately, you know, I see something or there is an offer and immediately, okay, what does it mean? From my experience with the clients, sometimes they ask me about their numbers and the profitability and stuff like that. Maybe the most important tip here is if you struggle with numbers, and a lot of people do, if you can’t figure it out by yourself, get help. Get someone you trust who looks at the numbers or who explains it to you. That’s important.
Ari: Awesome.
Patricia: And then see if it’s realistic. You know your business, you know how you can work and stuff like that. You know your expertise. And then make sure the numbers are realistic, how much you can charge, how much you have to invest and consider all the costs, like also your time. Because time oftentimes is a limiting factor. And especially passionate entrepreneurs, they tend to say, yeah, I will invest the time as soon as I can, save the money, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but you will end up being burned out or bored out. So please be very mindful about that.
Ari: Awesome. Super helpful. Thank you for going into that.
Patricia: Yeah, you’re welcome.
Ari: So before we wrap up, is there anything more that you want to share with the course builders that are listening to our show?
Patricia: I think it’s a wonderful way to work. You do the stuff that you love with the clients, you love making money, having an amazing lifestyle in the online world because you can work from everywhere. You only need the Internet. Sometimes you only need your cell phone, not even a computer. So I just love it. And I encourage everyone to follow your passion, stay true to yourself and be realistic with the numbers. When you follow that, it’s a path to success and fulfillment.
Ari: Amazing. Thank you so much.
Patricia: Thank you for having me.
Ari: If our audience wants to learn more about you, about the work that you’re doing, what is the best place for them to go?
Patricia: My website is womenunlimited.in and there you can also sign up for my newsletter and for free stuff and you will find any contact information. When you enter my world, my ecosystem, I do a lot of free stuff. I do a lot of also impromptu trainings or teachings. So just step into my world and see if it’s a fit.
Ari: Awesome. Patricia, thank you so much for being here with us. It was a fascinating call.
Patricia: Thank you.
Danny Iny: Now stick around for my favorite part of the show where Abe and Ari will pull out the best takeaways for you to apply to your course.
Abe: All right, Ari, it’s time for the debrief here. What was jumping out for you?
Ari: A few different things. So one is that idea of knowing your numbers, which is something I don’t think we talk about much on this podcast, but is so, so important as an entrepreneur to just understand both when you’re trying to ascertain whether an opportunity is actually an opportunity or it’s actually a distraction in disguise. But understanding your numbers for anything that you’re attempting to do, is it sustainable? Is it reasonable? Can it actually work long term and bring you what you need? Super important. And something that I don’t think entrepreneurs do enough as a gut check at the start.
Abe: Yeah, I think long term is the key word there for me. I mean, she talked about the importance of having a long term vision and letting that guide you. I think that it’s definitely important in an area where there are a lot of distractions, there’s a lot of shiny objects. But it’s also important to guide how you think about creating courses and programs and offers to have a North Star beyond. Just what’s the idea that we can come up with in the moment?
Ari: What else jumped out to you?
Abe: I mean, I guess the other point is, you know, it’s definitely a common theme, but she gave some good concrete examples of it, which is having a clear client focus and making sure that you are serving people who have enough demand and enough money to actually invest in your offerings. And so in her case, it flowed very naturally out of serving a particular client base in person, understanding their needs and understanding their willingness to pay and then building offers that were appropriate for that, as opposed to, I think a lot of people get stuck in coming up with, oh, there’s this course I could create because I have all these ideas, all this content or this offer I could make, but that’s not targeted to or aligned with a specific client that you understand that you have access to.
And so starting with some type of foundation, in her case, it was in person, but it could also be an online service business, or it could be doing, you know, different collaborations to understand your clients, but starting with that foundation so that you’re not flying blind.
Ari: Yeah, absolutely. And the last thing that I think it was just an interesting tactical thing that she did with the pop up sessions as a way to test out not entire courses, but even individual modules and individual elements of a course before packaging it later to make sure that it fits and it works and it lands the way she intended. Makes a ton of sense.
Abe: Yeah. A really good way to frame it and make that model accessible to people. Whereas starting with a course might feel very intimidating.
Ari: Exactly.
Abe: Okay, great.
Ari: Yeah, that’s all I had.
Abe: Patricia Peters is the founder and owner of Women Unlimited International. Find out more about her at Women Unlimited dot International. That’s Women Unlimited Dot International. And she also offers two free VIP resources for our listeners. You’ll find the links to all that in the show notes. Thanks again for listening to Course Lab. I’m Abe Crystal, co founder and CEO of Ruzuku, here with my co host Ari Iny. Course Lab is part of the Mirasee FM Podcast network, which also includes such shows as Neuroscience of Coaching and Once Upon a Business.
If you’d like to hear more from Course Lab, you can follow us on YouTube or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. And of course, if you enjoy the show, please do leave us a review. It really does make a difference. Thank you and we’ll see you next time. All right, Ari, who do we have coming on to the show next time?
Ari: Next time we have Donna Durbin. She’s the founder and owner of Clear English Coach. Her course helps non native speakers communicate with confidence and clarity.
Abe: Sounds like a really interesting niche.
Ari: Absolutely.