Just Between Coaches – Episode 127
Fearless Decisions Empower Choices (Angie Colee)
Angie Colee: And I would tell them, I would love to pretend like I know what’s right for you. I have my suspicions of what I think would be a good move, but I’m more interested in what you think is the best move for you. I don’t want that kind of power.
Melinda: Ever faced a client saying, just tell me what to do. It’s a delicate balance between offering guidance and empowering clients to make decisions. So if you’re ready to dive into the secrets of handling those tell me what to do moments, stay with us.
I’m Melinda Cohan, and you’re listening to Just Between Coaches. I run a business called the Coaches Console, and we’re proud to have helped tens of thousands of coaches create profitable and thriving businesses. This is a podcast where we answer burning questions that newer coaches would love to ask a more experienced coach. All right, let’s break it down, y’all. In today’s episode, I’m going to talk about how to amp up your clients who come to your session just wanting XYZ. They’re feeling stuck in the fog of outside opinions and conflicting advice, and they want you to tell them what to do.
Today, I’ve invited Angie Colee, a business coach for rule breakers and rebels and a fellow podcaster. With a rich background, consulting and leading creative teams for renowned entities such as Jeff Walker’s Product Launch Formula, Masterclass, Lowe’s Copy Chief, Orza Media, and Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad brand, Angie brings a wealth of experience to the table. Her unique approach blends the simplicity of kiss, keep it simple silly, with strategic prowess and exceptional people skills.
Welcome, Angie.
Angie: Hi. Thanks for having me.
Melinda: I’m excited to have this conversation, and as I was getting ready for the show, it took me back to some of the situations when I went to my coach with this very situation. But before we get into the topic, would you share a little bit more of your background with our listeners?
Angie: Sure. I went to school because that’s really all I knew how to do. I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life, and so I just tried things until I figured it out. And I thought I wanted to work in TV development until I got laid off by the Oprah Winfrey network. Sorry, Oprah. I’m coming for your favorite things, though. We’re going to reconnect. When I got laid off, I didn’t know what to do, and I happened to read a book at the right time that turned me down the path of copywriting and marketing, which I proceeded to stumble and fumble my way through, build up a reputation, build up some wins and some expertise, until I hit that wall, too, and was like, all right, well, I think I’m done writing copy. What’s next?
And then I turned down the path of coaching because people had already been approaching me on how to build their copywriting businesses and how to rise their copywriting star. So it just. It’s been kind of a natural evolution of following the steps to see where they lead, especially when it was an oh, my gosh, I don’t know what the hell to do moment.
Melinda: Right? I mean, I think we’ve all had those. I know there was this one moment in my journey. I remember being in Miami at a conference with women, and one of my mentors was there. And I remember walking from the event to our hotel, and I was like, Barbara, just jackhammer this out of me. I know it’s in there somewhere, but for the life of me, I can’t find it. I mean, I was so desperate for somebody just to tell me what they saw because I could not locate the words. I knew it was there, but I was so frustrated that I couldn’t get to it. So I want to talk about that, the tell me what to do moment. So what do you think is going on?
Angie: One of my friends describes it as, you can’t see the label when you’re stuck inside the bottle. And this is just a human trait in general. So if anything, this should make you feel reassured everybody listening. You’re part of the club. None of us really has the skills to see ourselves objectively. We’re always thinking that we’re way better than we are or way worse than we are. And I know personally, I have a tendency to look for the things that are still off in the distance that I haven’t yet accomplished, and kind of beat myself up with that yardstick without looking behind me to see how far I’ve come.
So how all that ties in is we’re just looking for perspective, somebody outside that bottle to tell us what they see. The only challenge with that is they also don’t have the unique perspective and experience and this rich internal tapestry that you’ve got to round that out. All they’ve got is this outward projection that is only one facet of your personality and your experiences to date. Right? I had somebody bring this to my attention the other day. One of my coaching clients told me when he hired me, he thought that he was in for, like, the tomboy. I’m going to punch you in the face. We’re going to kick down doors and we’re going to get stuff done. And I would be like, basically beating him up until he got to it.
And he told me, it’s interesting now that I know you better. You’re soft but tough. And I told him, yeah, see, that’s interesting to me, too, because I know how I advertise and how I market and how I speak, and I know that that’s one side of me that people see without understanding the full picture. So I know that that was a long answer to what you were saying, but I think it comes from just uncertainty, lack of being able to see how we’re great, not being able to own all the ways that we’re great and really just lean into that and trust.
Melinda: Yeah. It’s been a very interesting experience preparing for this interview because that same mentor, I was on Zoom with her just yesterday. And so that first conversation in Miami was, oh, my gosh, that was probably back in 2012, so just over 10, 11 years ago. And so here we are back on Zoom yesterday about something completely different. I’m not asking her to Jackhammer the answers out of me anymore, but there’s a new area that I’m exploring. And I was asking her about being a mentor and guide for me in that topic. And it was completely the opposite.
She’s like, well, I want to do a group and I want you to be involved in this group. And I was like, no, I don’t want to be involved in a group because I don’t want to be influenced by other people and what they’re thinking or saying or how they’re exploring the topic. I just want to be in this state of exploration. So for the newer coaches that are in the audience, what are some of the signs when a client comes and says, you know, they just need you to say what they should do, but they’re not really expressing it. Like, how does a new coach handle that situation?
Angie: I mean, I’ve had some people explicitly say I’m in over my head. I’m overwhelmed. I’m just looking for somebody to tell me what to do. And I’ve had people kind of approach it obliquely, too. That’s like, well, that’s what I’ve got. What do you see? What do you think? And the implication there tends to be, what do you think I should do? And, you know, at first, when I was an early-stage coach, I was like, I’m super smart strategist, and I’ve got a lot of wins under my belt. I know exactly what you should do here’s what you should do. And I’ve fallen into that trap many times.
It is a trap. And I didn’t really understand that until I volunteered on a domestic violence crisis intervention hotline. And we had a two-day training to help us understand how to be of better service while working with people that are in crisis. Right? They’re not thinking clearly. It’s an emergent situation that often involves emergency services, police, firefighters, whatever. And there’s a tendency when you’re on the phone to really kind of put a wall between yourself and that person that’s calling in and to really start to parse out. I think this person’s telling the truth. I think this person has a legit. We start to judge them.
And this training that they put us through really opened my eyes because they challenged us to put ourselves in their shoes and really understand. We had this game where we had, like, a certain amount to spend and we had to make choices that cost us with each choice that we made. And by the end of it, some people were out of options and had nothing else to do. And I started to realize that if I’m making choices for that person, I might actually be putting them in danger. I might be actually spending resources that they don’t have because I’m making a lot of assumptions.
And that ties back into what I said at the beginning about they don’t have that rich internal tapestry, the awareness of your resources and your capability that you do. So it’s really got to be a two-way street. Not 50 50 on the part of your coach and your client, but each person bringing 100% and trying to figure out the way forward together.
Melinda: And so how do we share that with our clients when they’re in that frustrating, tell me what to do moment? How do we coach them that we’re not going to tell you what to do?
Angie: I think the approach is different for everybody and really depends on your personal communication style. I’m a very direct but compassionate person, so I will usually tell somebody, I would love to pretend like I have all of the knowledge and the skills and the understanding of you down to a cellular level to be able to predict with 100% confidence. The fact is, I can’t predict that with even myself. So I’m deeply uncomfortable telling you what I think you should do. If you go do that, and for reasons that I’m unable to see, it doesn’t work, well, I don’t want to put you in a situation. What I want you to do is to be able to hear your own internal voice.
That’s why I loved when you talked about going into a group versus the individual mentorship and talking about understanding what you thought about these things, following your own instincts. That’s really my goal as a coach, is to help you clear out all of the noise and understand what you think about the situation, what your instincts are telling you to do, for better or for worse, so that we can figure out a decision that makes sense for you. So, you know, if you aren’t as direct and straightforward as me, you can say, well, help me understand.
Why is it that you think that I have the answers for you? And I’m not saying that to be cheeky or mean or anything like that. I really want to understand why you don’t think you have the answers and you think I have the answers. Let’s talk about it. Right? And just creating a space for them to surface, whatever comes up.
Melinda: Yeah. You know, I take people through a roadmap in our coaching business system program. And while it has common steps, it’s not really a one size fits all. And so people, they’re often like, just tell me what to do. What do I need to do in my business right here? And I’m like, well, I can’t tell you what to do, but I can share my experience and I can reflect what I hear you saying is important. And that skill of reflecting, just having a client hear me repeat verbatim what they just said, they’re like, oh. And then all of a sudden, it opens up a perspective that they couldn’t see for themselves. Are there other coaching skills or strategies that you bring to your clients as well?
Angie: That’s a good one. First, I wanted to circle back and talk about the power of reflection because I know when I was an early-stage coach, I was hyper focused on the results. And I come from that direct response, sales-oriented background and was like, but if I can’t get them to take action and get a win, then I’m failing as a coach. No, you’re succeeding as a coach if you help them learn something about themselves that enables them to take a step forward. And sometimes, that’s a long process and sometimes it’s a light bulb clicked and I’m able to move forward really quickly. So this isn’t overnight snap your finger solutions. And I just wanted to really highlight that because I thought it was brilliant.
I actually, I had an experience like that with somebody that I hired to coach me. I joined her program, which was around launches, and I am arguably a launch expert because I wrote as Jeff Walker for many years. And one of my friends very innocently looked at me and said, why on earth are you hiring somebody to teach you about launches? You know practically everything there is to know. I said, I’m not looking for more information on launches. I’m looking for an accurate mirror because the one that I look in is warped and distorted by the things I think I can and can’t do. Right?
I’m looking for somebody to reflect back at me what they see so that I can make some clear decisions and some better judgment calls than I could make on my own. And that’s why I love coaching. It’s wonderful. And it doesn’t matter whether you’re a beginner or you’re a super advanced coach, because you can reflect back at people and help them move forward. And it’s beautiful.
Melinda: Yeah, it is beautiful and powerful. Now, speaking of noise, a lot of people, when they’re in this, tell me what to do. It’s because they’re getting that conflicting advice. You know, this teacher is saying, do it this way. This guru is saying, do it that way. They’re like, in this internal tug of war. And a lot of skeptics might say that, well, a coach is only adding to the noise. How do you educate your clients that your guidance helps cut through the clutter rather than contributing to it?
Angie: Yeah, that’s a great one. I think my favorite thing to say in situations like that is the good news and the bad news is that all of those systems work. All of them do. That’s why you’ve got so many gurus out there saying, try my thing. It works because it works for them. But that’s the key. That’s the thing that we’re trying to figure out right here. What works for you? What works for me may not work for you. What works for that person over there may not work for you. It may, but we’re not going to know until you explore that.
And sometimes part of exploring that is trying it out because it feels good and then figuring out, nope, that’s not for me. And sometimes part of it is trying it out, but with this change, because that part doesn’t really make sense to me. And just learning what you can learn by taking action, there’s diminishing returns to studying everything forever and trying to figure out the perfect plan well before you ever make a move.
Melinda: Yeah.
Angie: So that’s. That’s what I try to communicate with my students, that, like, the clarity is going to come from the action. That’s what’s going to reduce the noise, not evaluating all of the options for all the pros and cons forever.
Melinda: Are there. Are there questions or inquiries that you use with clients to help them reflect on all those different perspectives, to locate their own version of clarity without feeling pressured to have to go in one direction or another?
Angie: Yeah, I usually will ask, okay, so which one feels like the direction for you? What are you leaning toward? And it doesn’t matter. Like, if you have a solid reason why or not. Like, tell me instinctively if you had to flip a coin and say yes or no to one thing, what’s that one thing? All right, cool. Why does that feel like the thing that you need to do? What’s interesting about that to you? How do you think that that’s going to help you? And sometimes, in the course of asking those questions, they will answer their own questions and realize, oh, I’m doing this to put off launching a new course because I’m really scared and I don’t feel ready, so I feel like I need more information.
Or sometimes they’ll go, oh, yeah, that feels like the missing piece to what I’ve been waiting for. So it’s about thinking deeper about those impulse thoughts and those feelings that pop up and really examining them. I have coaches myself, and I can’t tell you how many times and just articulating something out loud and getting it out of this echo chamber bouncing around between my ears. As soon as I say it out loud, I hear it and I go.
Melinda: Yeah. And feel it.
Angie: Yeah.
Melinda: Which is another powerful role I think coaches can play. When clients are in this tell me what to do mode, they’re resisting the path of moving forward, right? Whenever they’re moving forward, there’s often things that have to be undone before things can be put into place. And a lot of times, they’re just resisting that process, and it’s just like, no, just jump me over there. But you can’t jump to that new framework or that new way of being without modifying who you’re showing up as, what you’re thinking. Some of your beliefs, like, you have to visit, that you have to get messy. How do you prepare clients to get messy when we start exploring our way through the tell me what to do resistance?
Angie: I like to remind people that whatever comes up is okay. Your feelings are valid. And if something comes up that feels particularly powerful, there is no shame in taking a break. There’s no shame in crying. There’s no shame in venting and screaming off in the distance if that’s what you need to do to move the feelings through the body. The only thing that I don’t want them to do is to shove it down and pretend like it doesn’t exist, because that always surfaces at the most inappropriate time. It’s like trying to hold back the ocean with your arms. The sneaker wave is going to come up eventually and knock you on your behind, baby. Don’t do that.
So sometimes things come up in really unexpected ways. Like, you’re not launching this product because of a fight you had with your stepmom ten years ago that hasn’t been on your active mind for a while. And, you know, your brain is doing certain things to try and protect you. So if we can surface those stories and change those beliefs and figure out what it is that’s holding you back, then we can keep moving forward. So that’s like, whatever comes up is okay and it’s safe. And I’m going to give you the opportunity to do that. That’s what I like to encourage people to do.
Melinda: Yeah. And in doing that, I mean, that’s where those transformational breakthroughs lie. I just did another podcast interview on that topic of breakthroughs, and there was a really interesting comment that we discussed in there that when clients, you know, when they’re in this, you know, just tell me what to do or help me figure this out, and you start exploring that, a lot of times, clients are like, I don’t know. That’s how I was. When I was telling Barbara, I was like, just jackhammer this out of me. And she would start asking questions. I’m like, I don’t know. And I just kept hitting that spot of I don’t know.
And on the other podcast episode, we were talking about this, and the guest that I had on the show, Adam, he said, you know, when we hit that place with our clients, when our clients are saying, I don’t know, they’re at the edge of their almost their entire existence of being. They’ve never operated beyond that realm. And we, as a coach, that’s our responsibility to navigate them into that. So when he said that, I was like, oh, my gosh. When we hear our clients say, I don’t know, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, we’re up. Let’s dive in and let’s get going. And I’d never thought about that before. I’d love to get your thoughts on that.
Angie: I think that’s such an insightful observation, too, because there’s no point, I think, where if you’re growing, you ever really feel like you get it because you’re always operating at the edge of that comfort zone. And I really like that, helping them navigate that because I, as a coach, may also not know what the right path is for them, but I can help them figure out what they think they should do, the resources they should follow to get more information and to make a plan to bridge that gap, right? We can go. Okay, that hill over there looks a little bit closer than that one, so let’s not worry about that one for right now.
Melinda: Yeah, yeah. It was really an aha favorite frame for me as well. I want to shift the conversation because sometimes, when clients show up in this kind of tell me what to do, just give me advice moments, there’s a distinction. In the work that I do, helping coaches set up their business, I mean, there’s just fundamental things. You have to do to set up a business. So there are times when it’s appropriate, I believe, to just tell. It’s not because you’re short changing them from the journey or you’re doing them a disservice, I don’t believe. It’s just like, look, you need to know a, b, and c, and the quicker you know this, the quicker you can implement it to actually keep going.
Like, what’s a lead magnet? How do you put a funnel in place? Like some of those kind of tactical type things? So I just want to make that distinction. There are times when it’s appropriate to just tell because then you can move on to that. So that’s not what we’re talking about today.
Angie: I think that’s interesting because I think you’re talking about the distinction between making the decision and the execution of the decision. And so, like, once we’ve made a decision and it needs to be executed. I’m totally fine with going, okay, here’s the easiest way I know to get that done. Here’s a resource that you can outsource this to that will help you do that. Like, I like the distinction between the decision-making process, which ultimately has to be theirs because it has to be right for them, their finances, their mental state, their support systems, their people. But once it comes to execution, oh, yeah, I’m an operations person at heart, and I’m like, okay, I know how to get that done. Let me help you.
Melinda: Yeah, that’s the approach I take as well. Now, sometimes when clients come, they want that direction, like you said, in making the decision, but they’re resisting taking responsibility. How do you gently guide them toward acknowledging their role and their failures, successes and that whole learning process?
Angie: Oh, this is another one where kind of like blunt but loving Angie comes in. And I usually say, why are you trying to give me your power? You have the power here to make the decision. I read a great quote. I’m probably going to get it wrong, but it was like, a bird that lands on a branch doesn’t trust the branch not to break. The bird trusts itself to fly away if and when the branch breaks. And I see that as all of our individual responsibility, too. It’s not about trying to engineer the situation to where nothing goes wrong or to surround ourselves with people that we know will never betray us, but it’s about trusting yourself to figure out the next step.
And the only way that you build that trust is by building the muscle, like that butterfly coming out of the cocoon. We’ve got to make those steps forward. And I tell them, I would love to pretend like I know what’s right for you, but I have my suspicions of what I think would be a good move. I’m more interested in what you think is the best move for you. I don’t want that kind of power to dictate what Melinda’s life should be versus what Angie’s life should be. I just want to have power over me.
Melinda: Mmm. I love that. I love it when. When we’re talking with our clients, you know, their resistance and the frustration of just tell me what to do. A lot of times I find that one of the driving forces behind that is because they’re putting themselves in situations where the stakes are high, where if they get it wrong, it’s going to be a very big deal and it’s going to have big negative implications. And so I’ll talk to my clients about, you know, where can we explore this, where the stakes aren’t that high. And then all of a sudden, it feels safer to have that conversation.
Angie: Oh, I love that. I think that’s fantastic. Like, what can we do to make this feel safer? Or can we do a thought exercise where we imagine that the risk doesn’t exist and that the stakes aren’t there and this is just another move that I’m going to make. What would it look like if I were going for this with everything I had? What would it look like if I didn’t think I was doing a good job? Like, how can we plan for this better? And I think also just reminding people that we can’t attach to the outcomes. That’s where I think a lot of the suffering and the anxiety comes from, because we pretend like we’ve got control. We don’t.
One of my mentors talked about surrendering, and it took me a long time to understand that. It’s not surrendering like becoming a leaf in a stream being washed away whatever direction you go. It’s about going, okay, this is the choice that I’m making right now. And this is the outcome I’m hoping for. But I understand it may not play out the way that I hope. And I trust myself, like that little bird, that if I get outcome b instead of outcome a, I’ll figure out the next step from there, and it’ll be okay.
Melinda: Now, in the intro, when I was bringing you onto the show, it talks about how you’re a business coach for rule breakers and rebels. I love that, by the way. So do you think navigating this topic is different depending on the kind of clients you work with? Like, you know, if you’re working with rule breakers and rebels, they’re like, whoa, let’s go. I would imagine, you know, some executives may be like, yeah, no, depending on the personality or that even maybe the type of niche you’re working in, does it influence, a, if this happens and b, how you navigate a client through it all?
Angie: Well, I mean, at the end of the day, whether we’re a rule breaker and a rebel or we’re more buttoned down, we’re still humans. And so we’re all going to have those similar experiences of devastation, frustration, confusion, overjoyed. Like, those are very human things that we all have in common. And I love how that connects us, regardless of the experience that we’ve had. I do think that that changes a little bit in execution, and that’s why it’s so wonderful to have so many coaches, because I know for a long time, I resisted becoming the rule breaker and rebel coach because I thought I had to be a certain way.
And that’s the beauty of the people that you’re working with. They’re probably assuming they have to be a certain way, too. But by choosing you, there’s something that they see in you that they think you can bring out in them and help them with. And I just love that trust factor. I don’t know what’s right for you, but we’ll figure it out together because we’re two capable, awesome human beings. Let’s do this.
Melinda: If I share some insight or present something to them, I’ll say, you know, use this and tell me, is it wrong? Is it right? Is it something different? And I’ll give them that permission to, you know, not take what I say as the gospel but as a starting point. Is there anything about this topic that I haven’t asked you about yet?
Angie: That’s a good one. I think there’s an interesting angle that could be discussed when they hit that point where they’re like, just tell me what to do. And they’re in the resistance, but don’t know how to dismantle it. And we’re having trouble helping them navigate what that next choice is because there’s kind of a shutdown moment, right? Sometimes, I like to ease the tension by going, okay, well, we could make this super simple and just flip a coin, narrow it down to our two best options, and then go, whoops, what do we do?
And they always think that I’m being super silly, but what I’m trying to do is trying to get them to tap into their gut and their intuition, because they’ve already usually got an answer nine times out of ten. But for whatever reason, fear, self-judgment, uncertainty, they’re refusing to acknowledge that thing that they want to do. And like a coin flip, the beauty of this thing is as soon as that thing goes into the air, you already know how you want it to land or if it landed on the wrong one, you go, I was hoping for the other one.
It doesn’t always have to be a deep exploration of the feelings, especially if the resistance goes super deep and we’re just not comfortable articulating those feelings. I’m not going to force that volcano to erupt, you know. But maybe we can take the lighthearted approach and flip a coin on this and see how you want to go. And were you surprised by that? Oh, tell me more about that and we can get them moving again instead of stuck at this wall.
Melinda: Love the coin flip idea. I might have to borrow that one. It just reminded me of an exercise that I’ll have clients go through. I’m pretty sure every coach uses this. It’s one of my favorites, especially as a new coach. This is one of my favorite go to’s was the act as if, like if they’re trying to figure out between one or two or a few choices, it’s like, okay, for the next 24 hours, you’re going to act as if you made choice a. You’re going to go tell one person that you are close to, and you’re going to go to sleep tonight, and you’re going to be like, okay, that choice is made. This is what I’m doing. And then you’re going to report back to me. What do you see? What do you notice? What are you feeling? What thoughts came up for you?
Angie: I love that.
Melinda: And then they journal it. And then the next 24 hours, it’s like, okay, now, choice b, you’ve made that. Go tell one person you know. You go to bed, and they go through that process. And in that process, one, they might argue with themselves, but one is blatantly clear almost every time. And then it’s just about a matter of coaching them on getting into agreement with that option or that scenario or that direction that they’re moving in. So that act as if is one of my favorite exercises.
Angie: I might have to borrow that one because I’m like, I’m amateur neuroscience nerd, but.
Melinda: Oh, my gosh, I love.
Angie: Yeah, me too. The brain is so fascinating, like mysterious mystery meat computer that we’ve got going on up there. But from what I understand of neuroscience is our brain doesn’t understand the difference between fiction and reality. So just pretending like, that’s the decision we made. The brain goes, cool, we’ve made that decision. Let’s go. And all of a sudden, you’ve got more data to be able to make this decision with more confidence. That’s so beautiful.
Melinda: Yeah, I love it. And I have them journal, what are you seeing? What are you noticing? What are you thinking? What are you feeling? Because when the brain makes that decision and acts as if it’s informing all the rest of your body. And so you’ll have physical sensations, you’ll have emotional sensations. You’ll have energetic sensations indicating what’s happening.
Angie: Oh, that’s so awesome, too, to focus it on what’s happening in the body, because I know that’s helped me get unstuck before, too, when I’m overwhelmed and I can’t tell what I’m feeling, just that practice of noticing what is happening in my body helps me to narrow it down and go, oh, it’s anxiety. It’s that shoulder twinge that I get when I’m really nervous.
Melinda: So, let’s summarize some of the stuff that we talked about so far today. I love how you kicked us off when we talked about the tell me what to do when you said, you can’t see the label when you’re stuck inside the bottle. It’s like, oh, yeah, we do just sometimes need perspective. And so the power of coaching helps us navigate that. We dove into how can a new coach handle these situations? And I love that you reminded everybody about the, well, here’s what you should do trap. And the layers of assumptions that come with that. So, be very mindful not to fall into that.
We talked about when a client says, I don’t know, that is the edge of their realm of existence and we’re taking them into those uncharted territories. So be gentle and create a safe space for them. And I mean, my gosh, we got into the neuroscience of things. We got into the different niches and just different types of people. I love all the different ways that we’ve explored this topic. And Angie, do you have any parting words for our listeners?
Angie: Lean in and trust yourself because taking action on what you instinctively think is right is going to teach you a lot more than getting stuck in that analysis paralysis over analyzing loop. And sometimes, it won’t be obvious to you why you instinctively wanted to go that direction until you’ve already gone there. And then it’ll be clear. Sometimes when I tell my client, I don’t know why this story is coming up, but I feel called to tell you this right now. Tell me if this makes sense or if this lands, and then I have zero expectation of how it’s going to go. No attachments again. So trust yourself. Let what comes up come up and build that safe space for people.
Melinda: Awesome. Thank you for listening to this episode of Just Between Coaches and a giant thank you to Angie for this incredible, fun conversation. You can find out more about her at permissiontokickass.com. That’s permission to T-O kickass dot com. And in the show notes you’ll find the links to her website, her book, Permission to Kick Ass, as well as her podcast. Angie, thank you so much for coming to the show.
Angie: Thank you for having me. This was a blast.
Melinda: I’m Melinda Cohan and you’ve been listening to Just Between Coaches. Just Between Coaches is part of the Mirasee FM podcast network, which also includes such shows as To Lead is Human and Soul Savvy Business. To catch the great episodes on Just Between Coaches, please follow us on Mirasee FM’s YouTube channel or your favorite podcast player. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a comment or a starred review. It’s the best way to help us get these ideas to more people. Thank you and see you next time.