Just Between Coaches – Episode 140
Credibility Is Your Coaching Superpower (Mitchell Levy)
Mitchell Levy: We’ve talked a little bit about the elements of credibility associated with being trusted. We talked a little about the elements of being known. Let’s talk a little bit about the elements of being liked. There were two values that came out of being liked, very simple, and surprisingly, we’re not taught to do this.
Melinda Cohan: Have you ever wondered how to make yourself truly credible in the world of coaching? Well, what if I told you that the key to credibility might lie in challenging conventional norms?
I’m Melinda Cohan and you’re listening to Just Between Coaches. I run a business called the Coaches Console and I’m proud to have helped tens of thousands of coaches create profitable and thriving businesses. This is a podcast where we answer burning questions that newer coaches would love to ask a more experienced coach. My guest today insists that clarity is the secret sauce to establishing credibility. But why? And more importantly, how can coaches cultivate this clarity to stand out amidst the noise that’s out there?
I’ve invited executive coach Mitchell Levy to the show today. Mitchell’s a visionary thought leader and a global credibility expert and who has dedicated his career to empowering individuals and organizations to unleash their full potential. Through his extensive experience and credibility, Mitchell has developed a unique approach to helping organizations foster growth and transformation and create a culture of credibility. Welcome, Mitchell.
Mitchell: It’s great to be here. What a great intro. Thank you.
Melinda: My pleasure. And I’m so happy to have you on the show. And before we dive into this really fun topic, I’d love for you to share a little bit of your background with our listeners. What led you to become a global credibility expert?
Mitchell: You know, I’ve been in Silicon Valley for 35 years. I’ve started 20 companies. I’ve sat on the board of a Nasdaq company for nine years. I’ve created executive business programs at Silicon Valley universities and I’ve helped a number of CEO’s and companies with essentially, in the older days using the Internet, being able to run their business successfully as well as now focusing on credibility.
Now what happened is of the companies I’ve created for them have been book publishing companies. We have published over 750 books. And because, as anything happens, the book publishing industry has become democratized, I thought, what’s next? What’s important? Where do I go? And I looked at my four to 500 authors that I’ve published and I go, what do they need? Well, they’re all thought leaders and they all needed credibility. I go, huh, that’s kind of cool.
And the next day I woke up and had a vision. Napoleon Hill interviewed 500 millionaires to produce Think and Grow Rich. Mitchell Levy was going to interview 500 thought leaders on credibility. It took me a year to do the interviews and now, three years later, here I am.
Melinda: Wow. Beautiful, beautiful vision and pursuing it. I love this topic because with a lot of coaches, especially newer, they’re getting started. It’s one of the things that I hear so often. I want to be credible; I want to be taken seriously; I want people to take my business seriously. And credibility, like those phrases, often go hand in hand. So you’ve done these 500 interviews. What are some of the key insights that you’ve gathered relevant to coaches around this topic?
Mitchell: Well, the first thing that’s going to happen is if you go to the dictionary and read the definition of credibility, it’s only one third accurate, which is really what got me excited today. It says the quality in which you’re trusted, so trust is important. That said, in today’s world, it’s not just trust, it’s a quality, which you are known and the quality, which you’re liked. And so what came out of the interviews are ten values associated with trust.
And so for a new coach, what’s really important is to build relationships now, not just build relationships. Like if you go to a networking event and there’s 100 people there and you meet 90, that’s building relationships. If you go to a networking event and there were 100 people there and you had intimate conversations with three or four, that’s getting to know them, right? So what being trusted is, is the opportunity for people to really know you, to trust you. You’re authentic, you’re vulnerable, you have integrity and probably one of the most important things, this is why you’re doing your podcast. You have to be coachable. So if you’re a coach and you know it all, that’s not going to work very well.
Melinda: I’m thinking back to when I first started my coaching business some 20 years ago because I said the same thing. I’d never had my business. I didn’t know what it meant to do marketing. I just knew I wanted to do this thing that I loved called coaching. I had to make money at it, got fired from my job and I needed people to be willing to pay me. Even when I was brand new at coaching, in my scenario, I didn’t have time to go through my coach certification, my coach training, go through all my classes and then start my business. I had to start my business; I had to start making money and coaching people. And when I think back to those early days, being credible, being taken seriously, that was part of my jam as well.
And for me, it was in the actions. I knew my actions would speak louder than any words I could speak, or any things I could do. And so anytime I would have an experience with these relationships, I wanted to make sure I was delivering what I was promising, that I was in integrity, that the experience they had, like, they were wowed, not because I was talking fancy talk, but because they were having great experiences and experiencing insights and results. And so that’s what defined credibility for me back then, was the actions, the experiences. That’s what cultivated the trust, the know, the like factors as well.
Mitchell: I love it. There are two things I want to say. When somebody that you want to learn from and grow from says the phrase fake it till you make it, that is someone you don’t want to be involved with, because that’s the most silliest and stupidest expression I’ve ever heard. Because you did what’s appropriate. I was going to ask you what your actions were. The second thing I was thinking about is the word integrity. What was fascinating about the research is that of the ten values of credibility, integrity was the only one that appeared twice.
And I’m going to be a little bit vulnerable. I’m going to say when I published the research, when I did the TEDx, when I wrote the book, I did not know why I listed integrity twice. So about a year later, I was talking to a friend who help me understand something really powerful. Actually, I’m going to go a side topic for a second. What she said was, she’s a person who focuses on joy. And she said, you know, Mitchell, joy is on the inside and happiness is on the outside. And that next morning, I’m like, huh, I know why integrity is twice.
So integrity is under the pillar of being trusted. That’s your external integrity. That’s what you show to the world. What you demonstrated when you started your practice is as somebody gets to know you, by the way, it’s not that they know of you, it’s that they know you. There’s also an integrity. And the integrity there is your internal integrity. And as a coach, particularly an executive coach, the old command and control, do as I say and not what I do. The thing is, if your external integrity is different than your internal integrity, you lose credibility.
And so if you’re talking as a CEO of a company or if you’re coaching anyone who’s an executive and their life is a mess, well, their employees see that and they start losing credibility. And so as a coach, the most important thing you could do is help them understand that even though integrity is two pieces, your personal integrity is really what helps you come across as being credible.
Melinda: Yeah, I love that. Just kind of unpacking that. And I remember one of my coaches, my first coach, who then became my business partner in the Coaches Console; when I was first working with her and starting out as a coach, one of the first tips she shared with me, she’s like, Melinda, as a coach, it is of vital importance that you have either done the thing that you’re asking your clients to commit to or you’re willing to do it alongside them. Those two things have to be true.
I mean, integrity has always been my thing. So I’m like, well, I can do that. And so right from the get go, credibility was established pretty strongly with my clients. I was very transparent with them about that, and they appreciated it. And I was able to express my vulnerability and like, okay, I haven’t done this. I’m going to ask you to do this. So I’m doing it right with you. And they’re like, wow, okay. And then it just ramps up the credibility because you speak the words, you do, the actions, you follow through, right.
So that is just a significant way to build credibility. And then there’s building credibility with potential clients, with your audience, with referral partners. They may not hire you and work with you, but they’re going to be interacting with you. And so I think the biggest driver of establishing my credibility was knowing that these people were going to invest money to pay me and I had better be able to deliver what I was promising.
Like, if they’re investing their money with me, that experience better be well worth it. And that drove my– it was just this fire that was lit under me to make sure I was doing everything within my business and coaching sessions to make sure that I delivered what I promised. And it was that easy. And it wasn’t easy. At the same time.
Mitchell: What was that thing that inspired you when you started your business that you realized that that was the most important thing to focus on? There are many things to focus on, but that is really one of the most important things to focus on. I asked a question, but I’ll fill in the blanks. Just so everyone heard, the fact that you didn’t have to fake it till you make it, the fact that you allowed yourself to be coachable, the fact that you allowed yourself to be vulnerable. Hey, listen, I haven’t done this. That said, I have your best interest at heart, so let’s do this together. What caused you to think that that was the way to act?
Melinda: Ooh, that’s a great question. I knew at the time that I had never done this. I had never had a business. I had been very successful in my job, working with clients. I knew that my clients in my other job, they valued truth over showmanship, and they just wanted to know the truth, whatever it meant, that that’s what they valued, and that’s where the credibility, the relationships were strengthened. Is that truthfulness and that transparency?
I’m talking about, in my interior design days, when I’m working with corporations and they’d rather know we’re going to miss a deadline, but want me to be truthful with them. Well, here’s what I’m going to do. They’d rather know that than me just kind of scramble and hope that it works and then have to go and tell them.
I had that wisdom that I drew from, I guess, but that’s a great question. I know that it’s how my first coach acted with me, and I really appreciated it as a client. I could feel as a client who was nervous on a journey of transformation of my own and feeling very vulnerable as a client. The way that she showed up and established that with me, I really appreciated it, and it helped me to relax into my nervousness as a client, which created a greater experience and then great results in working with her. So I did the same with mine.
Mitchell: Can I give a phrase or a word to what I just heard?
Melinda: Yeah.
Mitchell: One of the things that you obviously do really well is to create a container, and you create a container of trust by just showing up and being able to be truthful, to have the value of credibility, the intent and commitment to do the right thing. By the way, it’s not the right thing for you personally as a coach. It’s for your client who you’re working with. Right? It sounds to me that you just let your heart speak for you in terms of what was right. Maybe you just got lucky enough that your first coach was really someone who was really good to show you how it’s done, and you just emulated it. Whatever it was, you are the person of that, of all those interactions.
Melinda: Yeah. And I think back to thousands of coaches we’ve worked with over the years and how nervous they are in the early days of their business, whether they’re just getting started or they’ve been doing it for a few years, but they really want to portray this credibility, this level of professionalism, this level of trust, like you’re talking about, and so many of them mistakenly believe that the external factors are going to be what drives their credibility. Can you talk to that for just a minute?
Mitchell: So I have a label for what you just mentioned, and I call it marketing cookie cutter shit. It’s all of the things that we’ve been taught and we follow just because other people have done it. We’ve been taught this because it has worked for other people and it’s made money. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. It may in some cases, but it does not add value to who you are as a person. The most important thing that’s going to help you with credibility is the social proof from other people, their testimonials, video testimonials, written testimonials.
And so if you’re a new coach and you don’t have any testimonials, what do you do? Well, you go to a client and you say, or you go to a prospect, say, listen, I know I can solve this issue. I haven’t done it before. I’m interested in helping support you, and I will do it for no cost or for what you want to pay me, but the real cost, I want a video testimonial at the end. Second client, I’ve done this before. Here’s my video testimonial. I don’t know what I should charge. Pay me whatever you think I’m worth, and I want a video testimony right there. Coming in with that level of vulnerability and coachability is great.
Melinda: Social proof, that is. It’s like the chicken and the egg, right? It is so important to help build and boost credibility. My coach did the same and she passed it on to me. And so for, I think it was like the first three or five clients, she said, just go find the people to coach. I didn’t even worry about charging or anything. It’s just I’d love to coach you, and in exchange, if you found it valuable, I’d love a testimonial. And it was easy to get those first few clients. They all provided a testimonial because I made darn sure it was going to be a great experience, even though I was brand new at coaching.
And just a few stories is all I needed, just a few little snippets and a few little stories to share, and it helped to build and boost that credibility. I shared something with some folks last week that a lot of times newer coaches, or if you’re doing a new program or a new part of your business for the first time, a lot of people will forget and they’ll think that their clients want them to be perfect, have all the answers, when instead our clients want us to be resourceful.
And so for new coaches, I think something that builds credibility is when a client brings you something and you’re going, wow, I don’t know how to navigate that situation. And you say to the client, you know what? I’ve not had an encounter with that situation, but I’ve got a circle of coaches, I’ve got a mentor coach, I’d like to take this scenario to. I’m going to protect your confidentiality, but I’m going to take this scenario and I’m going to bring you back some different ways that we can explore this. Would that be okay?
Every client is going to say, yes, please help me get through this. And so they are expecting us to be resourceful, not perfect. And when we forget our fears and get grounded in the truth of our skills, even if they’re new and wobbly feeling, we can still build our credibility in the early stages.
Mitchell: It is amazing and always fun to talk to someone who approaches every scenario in a way that I would also consider extremely credible. So congrats and thanks. It’s fairly rare that people talk like this and they should. And I would say if and when I get coached and I present an opportunity to somebody and they said exactly what you just said, I’d go, they care about me and they have a set of resources they’re going to reach out to and let me know. So for a coach who’s doing this, what happens is you are building the trust.
I think another way to think about this, we’ve been taught that there’s a employer employee, there’s a coach and a coachee, there’s a dominant and subservient person. I don’t believe that’s what coaching is about. I think coaching is to be the person who is, who’s the accountability partner that is helping the person move from a to b. Now, there’s lots of methodologies and approaches you can get trained on to move from a to b. And what’s appropriate is that you’re there to help facilitate that. You are helping the client who, if you’ve had this honest conversation about where they are today and where they want to go, you now have an opportunity to support their transformation.
Melinda: Yeah. Some of the situations where my credibility has really been boosted was when I made mistakes or when things didn’t go well. I thought that didn’t happen the way it was supposed to and I had to go to my audience or our clients and say, I’m so sorry, this was supposed to happen. It didn’t. My apologies. We’re going to make this right, and here’s what we’re going to do instead. I don’t think there was a time where it didn’t happen, where they’re not like, oh, my gosh, you’re human, too.
That’s refreshing. That’s so good to know. And just that being able to relate boosted the credibility, which when that first time, being a recovering perfectionist that I am, I thought it was going to be the death of my entire existence in our business. And when people are like, oh, you’re human, that’s fine, great. And then when I saw that it was actually a source of inspiration for them to say, oh, if that can happen to her and she can get through it, I can do this. And I’m like, okay, that was an unexpected source of building my credibility.
Mitchell: So we’ve talked a little bit about the elements of credibility associated with being trusted. We talked a little about the elements of being known. Let’s talk a little bit about the elements of being liked. There were two values that came out of being liked, very simple, and surprisingly, we’re not taught to do this. The first is showing respect. Now, I know that sounds obvious, but what it means is coming early, coming prepared, and coming with your heart. So showing respect. You know, if you’re on a podcast, you come at least ten minutes early.
If you’re going to a meeting, come a couple minutes early. If you are meeting with somebody you haven’t met before, do research ahead of time. We have the Internet. You could look and learn almost anything you want about somebody else. You only need a couple minutes to come prepared. And coming with your heart is basically this conversation, coming open ended, ready to listen, waiting to be of service. So showing respect is one thing. The other thing, I call it spreading cred dust.
Spreading cred dust is sharing the ideas, thoughts and opinions of others. Many of us have been taught that you need to be the know it all. You need to understand what’s going on, and you need to be the person who knows every answer in every situation. As much as I can, I try to include, if I learn something from somebody else, I want to include them. I want to spread their cred dust. I want to spread the ideas, thoughts and actions of others. When a client comes to you, you say to the client, I don’t know enough, but let me go to my network.
You may want to ask your network, hey, do you mind if I say, who share this with me? Many times when I’ve come back and said, well, I’ve had a conversation with a luminary and he said, or she said, and then the person said, wait, you talk to this person about me?
Melinda: Yeah. I love the idea of cred dust and spreading that and sharing that because it boosts and elevates each other one another when we can do that as well. Now you’ve got the opposite of that something that you call cred crud. Tell us about that. Tell our listeners about cred crud. I love it.
Mitchell: Thanks for bringing it up. Always makes me smile when people talk about cred crud. It’s the things that you do that hurt your credibility. Now, they’re not going to necessarily completely throw you out of the running. So I’ll give you a couple of examples. When I look at other publishers or writers and I look at their websites and I go to the bottom of their website and I see that the copyright is the wrong year, that doesn’t mean I’m not going to work with them, but it’s something that’s a negative for me. Or if I see spelling mistakes, if it’s a writer and they’re supposed to do better, or if I see corporate sites and things are broken, I may come back later, see if it’s fixed, or if I talk to somebody and they’re not acting the way they’re supposed to act.
All of those things are I call it cred crud. And cred crud is very similar to plaque on your teeth, and it’s always the cleaner afterwards and they’re scraping the plaque off. The more plaque you have, the better chance you have of getting cavities. The more cred crud you have, the better chance you have of the person who sees you when you’re not in a room, of never wanting to meet you in person.
Melinda: Yeah. And it’s interesting. I remember even before I started my coaching business in my interior design days, there was a group of us that would meet. It was like a little mini mastermind that we created, and there was about eight of us that were there. And there was this one guy that had been invited and he didn’t show up the first time, and we’re like, you know, we all assume goodwill. Something happened and sure enough, he’s like, oh, my gosh, such and such happened. And then next time he was invited, something else came up. Had to miss it last minute, had to say he couldn’t be there.
Third time he actually came, but came late to your point? And one of the other gentlemen in the meeting turned to him and said, I’m sorry there’s no longer a seat for you in this mastermind, because we really take people that are committed and want to be a part of this, and your actions continue to show that you’re not. And it was the most dramatic example of accountability that I was like, whoa. And the gentleman asked him to leave, and the gentleman was kind of the spearhead of this whole group. We met in his office, and so it’s like, wow, okay. And that also drove home in me. Say what you mean. Mean what you say. Do what you say and follow through, because that is important, and it really does matter.
Mitchell: I love that story. I wish I was in the room. I’ve done things like that with people, but never in a situation like that. So I would have loved to be there. I’m living vicariously through you right now.
Melinda: Now, speaking of cred dust and cred crud, there’s another one that you talk about, about crafting and creating your own cred reel. Talk about the importance, like, what is that, and what’s the importance of it? And why should coaches have one?
Mitchell: I’m loving that you’ve done enough research on the phrases and the things that I do. What ended up happening when I was doing the interviews is I would ask five questions, and the goal of the five questions was to really unravel who the person was. And so the cred reel is answering five questions, and I’m happy to tell you what they are. And this will allow us to jump a little bit more into clarity. So, first question, what is your CPOP? What is your customer point of possibilities? And to me, the world revolves around the CPOP.
But let me summarize. It is the way that any company, any individual, can articulate who they are in ten words or less. So, the first thing I would say is, what is your CPOP? And the second question, tell me more. So, when you think about the CPOP, think about it as the playground you plan. If you’re a credible human, you are of service to others. If you are a service seller, the question is, who? And from their perspective, what. What is the pain point that they want to get over? What is the pleasure point they want to. They want to achieve? That’s their CPOP.
I’ll share mine and do my tell me more after I finish what is a cred reel? So, what would happen is, I would say, okay, what’s your CPOP? What is your tell me more. The third question, how do you have credibility to do what you do? So what happens is when you first ask somebody their CPOP, it is not personal, it’s not about I serve, I help. We’ve been taught wrong. We’ve been taught that the first words out of our mouths have to be, I want to help you, I can help you, I can serve you. We do this, we do throw that stuff out. If the first thing you could say is what playground you plan, now you’ve captured attention.
And what’s interesting, if you can actually share what playground you plan, the person who is listening, who is either a prospect or a referral partner, is going to say, tell me more. The tell me more is within a minute. How do you play in your playground? I’m using the word playground very specifically because if you don’t love what you do, it’s time to do something else. Now, in terms of the credibility, how you have credibility to do what you do, this is the things that are relevant, that establish credibility, that in the mind of the person you’re talking to, they go, oh, I got that.
So for, you know, if you’re talking to an academic and you got a PhD, that’s credibility. If you have strong integrity and you haven’t done it before, how do you have credibility to what you do? Well, I need to make you jump up and down for joy so that I can get a testimonial that’s going to be amazing. And so I’m going to make sure that I do whatever’s possible to allow you to be able to do that for me. So I have to make it work. The fourth question is how do you share your credibility?
Now, I’m sharing the questions in the way that they came down to me as a downloaded vision. What that means is there are ten values of credibility. And so from the perspective of one of those values, tell me a story. So if the stories about showing respect, tell a story within that, if the stories about the alignment of internal and external integrity, that’s a big one for you. Tell me a story about that. Right? So it’s that fourth question is telling a story, a minute or two story that emphasizes the playground you play in from one of the values of credibility? Does that make sense?
Melinda: Totally, yeah.
Mitchell: And the last question, how do people reach out to you? So the cred reel, five questions in five minutes so that somebody can actually see you, right? If they could see you, that means you’ve built trust, you’ve gotten them to know you a little bit. That’s by question four. And you’ve gotten them to like you because the question should be, if you’re a credible human, the answers to your questions are going to be, hey, this is the audience I serve, and this is essentially their pain points or pleasure points, and I get excitement out of doing that. When people can feel your energy in that five minutes, that’s enough for them to go, wow, I need to have that next conversation. I need to see if that’s going to work for me.
Melinda: Yeah. And that right there, what you just said, when they can feel that energy, that is contagious. And so when you have the insights to these five questions, when you’re prepared. You talked about being prepared earlier, right? When you’re prepared, people feel it. They sense it. When you are flying by the seat of your pants, when you are chaotic behind the scenes and you’re hoping nobody finds out what life is really like for you, that’s contagious, as well.
And I think the energetics also contribute to credibility because there’s been a lot of coaches that I’ve met that, you know, they’ve got that face on like, I’m fine. I’m okay. I got this. My business is great. And then behind the scenes, it’s a shit show, crap shoot. And it’s like, hold on a second here, because the energy matters, and it comes through even if you’ve got that false facade, people sniff that out. And the more contagious your positive energy can be, not the fake Pollyanna roses and rainbows, but the genuine passion, being able to answer these questions, even if it’s wobbly because you’re new, people can borrow your courage to take that step into the unknown for them to begin to make transformation.
And so it boosts credibility, and then that lends to them being able to take easier steps forward. It’s a beautiful process. And I remember that when I was first, starting before I had those clients, I was my greatest story, and I used that as my social proof. And I think a lot of coaches discount that. They say, oh, that can’t count. Surely that’s not enough. No, no. Your lived experience is exactly why you’re able to help other people, and I think that contributes to our credibility way more than people think.
Mitchell: I want to share the CPOP of one of the people I work with. And so you could feel it. Her CPOP, successful women heavy with regret, and you could just stop right there and go, oh, I know somebody. And then her tell me more. I could do her tell me more. That’s one of my superpowers. But I won’t. What I will say is, when somebody hears your CPOP, they’re one of three people. They’re a potential referral partner, they’re a potential client, or they, I don’t give a shit. So if they don’t care about your CPOP, it doesn’t mean they don’t care about you. It means that they don’t want to play in your playground. That’s really okay.
Imagine in a networking conversation, in three to five seconds, you could determine if the person is a referral partner or a prospect. That’s what a CPOP does, that’s what clarity does, and that’s what allows you to be more effective, because you end up having the right conversations with the right people.
Melinda: Yeah. And that’s the point of the clarity in all that we do, and it continues to boost our credibility. So let’s summarize a few things we’ve talked about today with this topic. I love how you expanded right off the bat. You took it from the typical definition and you expanded it to not just be quality, which you’re trusted, but also known and liked. And I really like how we explored all three of those throughout our conversation and how credibility is actions speak louder than words. Do what you say, say what you do. Mean what you say, say what you mean. Like integrity. Maybe that’s just me putting my own label on this, but it really is. I think that’s one of the biggest pieces about credibility.
We had fun talking about the cred crud. The cred dust. I love how you talked about helping spread the cred dust. We talked about how social proof boosts credibility. It doesn’t have to be clients’ social proof. It could be your own story. Do not discount the value and importance of your own story. We talked about the cred reel, and you gave us those five amazing conversations to help all of our listeners get super clear in knowing how to talk about what they do in this world. And I love that you gave us a couple of examples so that we could feel, as we’re hearing those words, what that clarity feels like.
Mitchell, any other parting words for our listeners today?
Mitchell: I’m going to share Marshall Goldsmith’s what came out of his last book, The Earned Life. Credibility is earned twice. Do the right thing that you get credibility in the first place, and second, when the time is right, you need to share it.
Melinda: Awesome. Thank you for listening to this episode of Just Between Coaches. And also, a big thank you to Mitchell for this incredible conversation. You can find out more about him at MitchellLevy.com. That’s Mitchell Levy L-E-V-Y dot com. In the show notes, you’ll find links to his website, his Credibility Booster program, his credibility definitions, books, other resources, all kinds of amazing stuff, including his TEDx talks. Mitchell, thank you so much for coming to the show.
Mitchell: Thank you so much. I loved it.
Melinda: I’m Melinda Cohan, and you’ve been listening to Just Between Coaches. Just Between Coaches is part of the Mirasee FM podcast network, which also includes such shows as Course Lab and To Lead Is Human. To catch the great episode on Just Between Coaches, please follow us on Mirasee FM’s YouTube channel or your favorite podcast player. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a comment or a starred review. It is the best way to help us get these ideas to more people. Thank you and see you next time.