Just Between Coaches – Episode 139
Creating a Heart-Centered Business (Mark Silver)
Mark Silver: If you can have your clients’ needs at heart, I don’t mean in a collapsed way. I don’t mean in a martyrish way. I don’t mean in terms of giving yourself away for free, but I mean in a sovereign place from your sense of strength and your sense of empowerment. If you’re really there for them and caring for them, the ones who sign up will stick around, and the ones who don’t sign up will have good things to say about you.
Melinda Cohan: In a world overwhelmed with trends and desires, discerning what our clients truly need versus what they simply want, it can be a maze. So what happens if these two forces clash? In this episode, we’re going to peel back the layers of this dynamic, uncovering the hidden pitfalls, but also how to navigate our clients towards truly beneficial solutions.
I’m Melinda Cohan, and you’re listening to Just Between Coaches. I run a business called the Coaches Console, and we’re proud to have helped tens of thousands of coaches create profitable and thriving businesses. This is a podcast where we answer burning questions that newer coaches would love to ask a more experienced coach. Amidst the battle between clients wants and needs, how do coaches stay true to their business values when faced with changing markets and client needs? And can a heart centered business flourish in today’s competitive landscape? Join us as we uncover these secrets to navigating this intriguing challenge and discover the transformative power of blending compassion with commerce.
I’ve invited Mark Silver to the show today for this conversation, and he’s a pioneering entrepreneur dedicated to infusing spirituality into the world of small business. As the founder of Heart of Business, Inc. Mark has guided thousands of heart centered entrepreneurs marked by a deep commitment to healing toxic business cultures and empowering small businesses to thrive. Welcome, Mark.
Mark: I’m really delighted to be here. Thank you, Melinda.
Melinda: I’m so happy to have you on the show and to dive into this topic. And before we begin, would you share just a bit of your background with our listeners?
Mark: Sure. So the brief version is I kind of grew up in punk rock and activism, but also small business. And that all intersected when my wife, Holly, kind of pulled me into the world of Sufi healing. And so I have been the student of a particular Sufi Islamic lineage for the last 20 plus years, and I’ve been integrating the intersection of social justice and the nitty gritty of small business and spiritual healing. And it’s just been a joy cause I’ve gotten to work with thousands of people over the last 23 years, and it’s a place where healing and love is deeply needed and can be incredibly effective.
Melinda: I love the intersection of spirituality and business. And it’s been something that we’ve also been integrating since we began. And I remember in the early days, 20 years ago now, people are like, you can’t blend spirituality and business. And I’m like, there’s no greater playground than kids and business. Like those two things, we are going to learn a lot about ourselves and our evolution to our next greatest version. So I love this intersection.
And there was something interesting when I was giving your intro, we talked about heart centered, that heart centered perspective. Let’s start there. What does it mean to have a heart centered business? I’m pretty sure I’m preaching to the choir for all of our listeners, but let’s just make sure we’re all on the same page with that first.
Mark: Yeah. So heart centered. So, you know, the world of business, the way that it’s existed over the last few centuries, is relatively new. Like, capitalism is relatively new. Trade and commerce has been around forever, but capitalism is relatively new. And what capitalism asked people to do, and people did was to have money centered or control centered business. And it’s been incredibly toxic and destructive. And being heart centered means that we have relationships at the heart of it.
We have love at the heart of our business. And it doesn’t mean that we’re just floating around the ether. It doesn’t mean that we’re nothing tethered to the really important, practical pieces of business, but it means that we’re looking. We have our eyes open and our heart open to find the love in every aspect of business.
Melinda: Yeah, I love that. It’s a both end world for me. My mom, I don’t know if you can see it. My mom got me that plaque. It says, it’s a rare person that can take care of hearts while taking care of business. And it’s been a plaque that I. It’s always front and center in my office. It’s one of the first things that I see when I come in to that. I’m like, okay, I love making money. I love making a lot of money. I love helping other people make a lot of money. I love businesses being successful and just the big old capital letters, and. And we’re gonna also infuse heart and spirit into all that we do. So I love that we’re anchoring in that. And let’s talk about the topic, needs versus wants. So, can you elaborate on the distinction between what clients truly need versus what they think they want?
Mark: You know, our clients come to us. And they’re often wrestling with this because on one hand that they said, you know, I’ve got this thing that it seems like is like the easier sell, you know, like the shorter session or the cheaper thing or the thing that’s more fun. But I really want to do the real work. Like, I want to work with people that want to go deep, that really want to take on the changes, that really want to do something worthwhile. And this is across the spectrum, whether someone’s a coach or a healer or, you know, doing holistic medicine or even doing something like book publishing or the wide variety of businesses that we help.
And I get it because it’s really hard to sell, you know, to use a metaphor, to sell broccoli to kids. You know, it’s like, it’s much easier to put a piece of cake in front of them. And so, and like you said, like, we want the businesses to work. We want people to be able to get paid and to be able to thrive and to be able to bring their gifts out. And if all they’re doing is selling broccoli, it’s going to, you know, might not be as abundant as they’d like.
Melinda: And when it comes to clients’ needs and wants, I mean, there’s all that old adage, sell them what they want. Give them what they need. Right? There’s that angle that we could look at this from. And I know one of the things that I hear from coaches and entrepreneurs especially, you know, they’ve been in business for a few years. Maybe they’ve got some traction under their belt. The whole industry is saying, you’ve got to scale. You must scale. Now it’s time to scale.
And so they’re all like, I need to scale. Help me scale. How do I scale, Melinda? And it’s like, well, hold on a second. And they’re just in this more, more, more, more mindset. And inevitably, it’s like, you don’t actually need to scale. Your pricing model’s not quite right, or your offer stack needs a little modification. And with that alignment, then the hockey stick of success happens, but you’re not scaling. And so it’s like, how do I balance? It’s like you’re telling me you want to scale, but that’s not, that’s like, if I just help, that’s really what they’re looking for. That’s going to be a train wreck.
Mark: Right, exactly. And I think these business industry terms get thrown around in these micro sized businesses, and they just don’t make any sense. You know, I mean, scaling, it’s an industry business term, and it doesn’t apply really to a business that’s been seeing, you know, a couple dozen clients. So I love the pushback because I do the same thing. I push back against my clients saying, what. What are you really trying to solve for? Like, what is it that you’re really needing? And often a sense of enoughness. Right? Is really the first thing to identify. Like, what is it that you’re really needing and wanting in your business? And then we can build the business around that.
Melinda: Yeah. And I love, I don’t want this to go unnoticed. Cause you kind of snuck it in there. You had a great question. What are you trying to solve for here? That is such a powerful question. When clients or prospects are in this I think I need this. I think I need this. I think I need this. When you can ask that question, it kind of is like, wait, what do I actually need? And then it aligns the needs and wants. So I don’t want that to go unnoticed because that’s a powerful question. And then you said another great word, enoughness. And, like, how do you handle that with a potential client or client?
Mark: You know, it’s often a big question to wade into because there are emotional and spiritual issues that get tangled up in the practicalities. You know, it’s like so many of us have specially enoughness often touches on if it isn’t entangled completely with financial concerns, of course. But there’s also issues around appreciation. And, you know, what was their relationship with their parents like, not to get into therapy. We’re not doing therapy, but it’s like, there’s often a lot of entanglement there.
And I like to bring a lot of kindness and spaciousness into that so that we can tease apart the different threads and say, like, you know, if you’re needing to access appreciation, let’s do that directly, emotionally access appreciation. And then if we can look honestly at your financial needs, the financial needs of your business, the financial needs of your family and your future, and be able to put all that out, usually, like, just what you were saying, you know, we can tweak your business model. We can tweak the pricing somewhat. We can tweak your sales process and some of your capacity.
And that can often free them up to access the financial flow they need without needing to become something much larger than is really in their heart. Some people, it’s in their heart to build a company and to scale. You know, it’s like, that’s, there’s nothing inherently wrong with it, but for most people that I’ve encountered and I’ve worked with, that’s not really what’s in their heart. They just want to be cared for. They just need that enoughness.
Melinda: Mm hmm. I love the enoughness that. I mean, that that’s a whole topic for. Oh, I don’t know, a whole chapter of episodes, probably, but it’s a good one. And another thing that I like to keep in mind when I think about needs versus wants, one of my mentors, you know, the way he talks about being an expert, and he’s not the one that’s coined this, but I hear it from him all the time. You know, being an expert is when the world says x, but really what I know is that it’s y. I mean, when we can bring that to our clients, it builds trust and rapport right away. So we’re deepening that relationship, but when it comes to when you see blatantly, oh, my gosh, they keep pounding about this thing that they want, but that’s not what they need. Right?
Like, we have to insert ourselves to say, well, the world says this, but really it’s this. And a thing that I like to do is I like to give them a heads up. It’s like heads up. If you’re researching other programs or you’re talking to other coaches, if they’re telling you x, y, and z, be very mindful, because that’s often not what’s really going on. What’s really going on is this. And I give them that insider perspective. Have you ever done anything like that? Or how do you handle that situation?
Mark: I love what you’re saying here, because and this kind of goes back to this needs versus wants question, because when we work with clients who are in this struggle about, should I give them what they need or what they want? We do the same thing, is, you know, what people are wanting is often something shorter, some kind of quick fix, something like that. And it comes out a very legitimate desire, very legitimate need, which is they have appropriate nervousness about making a significant commitment to working with you. You know, it’s like whatever they’re struggling with is probably very vulnerable for them, and they’ve probably been trying to work it for a while, so there’s some appropriate caution.
And so, you know, it’s not always appropriate to try to push someone into a long term commitment if they don’t know you well already. And so I say, yeah, give them what they want to meet the needs of that concern, but make that shorter thing, much less about trying to solve something and much more about assessing. Right? In fact, it’s very much what you were just saying. It’s like, I’m going to like dig in in my case, with your business could be into your health or into your finances or whatever niche you’re working with.
And I’m going to really ask a ton of questions and get really clear on what’s going on with you and I’m going to give you my best idea of what’s needed. And because I’m doing an in depth assessment, I’ll be able to say something that really makes sense. It’s not, you know, they don’t have to go on just on faith, like, oh, he must be the expert, so I’ll just believe him. It’s like, oh, I’ll explain. This is why I think this is true. And so that’s the shorter piece, but they also get the long term view and, you know, most people are adults, you know, they get it that once they see the picture that you’re seeing, like their hearts can open and they can trust and they go, okay, I get it.
You know, we tell a lot of people straight up, if you’re looking to develop a business, it’s not a six month thing. We have a developmental model that we have the four stages of business and that fourth stage is that scaling, building a larger company piece. But the third stage is where most people want to get to that momentum and to get from creation to momentum. Fastest, usually 18 months, but much more often two to three to four years of steady business development. And usually what people do is they breathe a sigh of relief because they can tell that it’s the truth, but to get there they have to trust you.
And that trust sometimes comes in those smaller bites and they’re like, let’s do an in depth assessment or let’s do this one little piece and then you can, you know, give them a slice of cake and then say, you know what? I think the broccoli is going to actually leave you with your body feeling better. Like you’re going to feel good. It won’t just taste good, it’ll feel good.
Melinda: When we look at some strategies or frameworks, what do you suggest for coaches as they, they do that in depth assessment? They really understand that they’ve had that great communication and that great rapport and connection with their client. As they’re working with clients, how do you recommend that they assess the evolving needs of their clients over time?
Mark: That’s a great question. I mean, so much of it has to do with their expertise and what they’re focused on. Right? There’s going to be industry specific pieces to that. But in general, what you’re going to want to do is you’re going to want to stay in touch, asking questions and making sure, you know, as the client grows and deepens in the work that you’re doing in their evolving, have their desires and their goals changed, you know, has their sense of what they’re aiming for changed as they have kind of often dropped away from kind of like the surface level stuff and found, like, the deeper yearnings inside them. Like, you want to be aware of that.
And it really helps if you do have some kind of developmental framework or some kind of understanding for how do people generally progress in the line of work that you do? And in that sense, then you can map them on there and you can say, okay, I see that you’re here. You know, are you trying to get here? Like it, like there’s a couple of different directions you could go. You know, we’re not trying to just create clones with our clients, but we say, you know, when you’re here, there’s a couple different directions you could go in depending on what you’re needing and what your commitment is and just, you know, the spaciousness in your life.
And so I think that the reassessment, on one hand is, is ongoing, and on the other hand, when I work with clients, I tend to work with them individually as opposed to in our learning. We have a learning community, which is a group program, of course. But when I work individually with clients, we do it in six month segments, even though I often end up working with people much longer. And that six month creates an artificial horizon, like an artificial boundary saying, okay, let’s reassess. What are the last six months have been about? What are the next six months going to be about? You know, let’s look and see what’s next.
And I think having those kinds of artificial lines, because that’s what they are, we could just keep going indefinitely. But those artificial lines wake us up and they allow us to make sure that we’re not on autopilot and enable us and prompt us to do that kind of reassessment that’s needed.
Melinda: Yeah. One of the things I loved in the early days of my business was the wheel of life. I mean, it seems like such a simple tool, and it seems so simple that I would often just disregard it. I’m like, surely it can’t be that easy. But then I realized, no, this is actually a powerful tool. And so I would use that when I started with clients, and then I would use it periodically. We even use it, we’ve adapted it to the wheel of business, and we use it with all of our clients. And it’s how our coach team checks in with them.
And it’s something that we teach our students is we call it the client journey of transformation. Some people call it a success path. But what you were actually talking about earlier, we’re starting in creation, and then there’s another stage and there’s momentum and there’s scaling, like having that high level, 50,000 foot broad stroke. It’s like, here’s the five stages that we’re going through. It doesn’t have to be great detailed, but at least they can locate themselves to say, okay, we’ve done with that stage. Here’s where we’re going next, and let’s have another. It’s these touch points to check in with. What’s the next level as we spiral through the transformation.
Mark: Exactly. I mean, we’ve built an online assessment that people can use for free on our website, and we encourage people in our learning community as well. I mean, when I’m working one on one, we do it. You know, I help them with it, of course, but when they’re in our learning community, I’m just saying, you know, you’ve been in here for a while. Why don’t you go reassess your business? Like, go through the assessment again? And people are often surprised because change happens gradually. You know, it’s like you put a little step in place and another little step, and the next week another little step, and before you know it, you’ve covered more ground than you think.
And when you reassess, it’s like, oh, my business is no longer in stage one. I’m somewhere in the middle of stage two concentration. And it’s really important for a client to know where they are on the journey because it has to do both with their confidence and their success, but also to know how to focus, to how to be in relationship. We have twin teen sons. They’re 15, and, you know, they’re no longer six, they’re no longer two. If I was still relating to them as if they were six or they were two, there would be a product. It would not work.
But knowing where they are, it means my parenting has to change. And it’s the same thing as being a business owner. Like, as your business progresses, your role as a business owner changes your relationship, and your role changes in significant ways. And it’s beautiful, you know, if you can be aware of that.
Melinda: Let me ask you this. I’d love your take on it. I will often encounter coaches, and because of this exact conversation, well, here’s what I know they need, but this is what they’re asking for, and coaches will customize their coaching package. And so it’s, you know, for Susie that they’re working with, it’s going to look like x, for Jo that they’re working with, it’s going to look like y. And the response is, well, they all want different things, so I tailor it to what they want. What’s your take on that?
Mark: So my first take is that, is it working for you? You know, for some people, for some personalities, it works really well. Like, it’s not a problem. And I don’t have any rule in my head that says that’s a bad or wrong thing. In fact, a lot of our clients that are corporate consultants have everything’s bespoke, you know, because they’re specking things out with a particular client. And I think that that’s fine. However, I think, you know, as you were describing it, what I see is that a lot of people do that out of fear or reaction, like, oh, if I don’t do this, I’m not going to get the client.
And here’s the thing. When someone comes to you and they’re struggling with something, they’re vulnerable. They’re actually looking to you. They want to lean into something strong. They want to be cared for. They don’t want their power taken away. They don’t want to be disempowered. But a lot of times what coaches or business owners think they’re doing to empower people, saying, oh, well, you choose or what do you want? Or we’ll do it your way. It actually doesn’t feel like empowerment. It feels like abandonment.
The way that I’ve experienced is when the kids were really little and I went to an acupuncturist and I was so sick, we were so sleep deprived when they were young. I’m one of the acupuncturists at the clinic, and I had a session, it was great. And I said, okay, what’s next? And he goes, well, what do you want to do? I looked at her because we’d been working together and I said, really, what do I need to do? And she knew. She knew what I needed. She said, you’re going to come in weekly for the next three months and then we’re going to reassess, you might go to twice a month.
I guess within six months, your energy is going to be back up. You’re going to be healthy. We’ll be down to once a month and just maintenance. She knew, I think, that most coaches, most business owners withhold that knowing out of fear and that if they, instead of are willing to claim their sovereignty, willing to claim their knowingness not out of a power trip, but out of a deep care for the client and want to give them their best to say, yeah, this is what I think you need. This is how I want to work with you.
Melinda: That’s really beautiful. I just. I want to jump in here really quick. It reminds me of one of the mentors I worked with. I was in a situation where I was very hesitant to move forward. I’m like, that is not possible. I could not see it with the spot that I was in. I was like, there’s no way. And he said this phrase to me. He’s like, I know. I’ve worked with x number of people, borrow my trust, borrow my courage, borrow my knowledge until you find your own footing. And I was like, when he said that, I was like, clearly he knows something that I don’t know. So I will borrow that until I find my own footing.
And it was a game changer, and it has been a phrase that I have taken with me. So I love that claim, your knowingness, not as a power trip, but in the area of vulnerability and wanting something to be different but not sure how to make it happen. Sometimes we have to borrow the courage and trust and confidence of somebody else in their knowingness, and people can lean into us for that. So I love that you brought that up.
Mark: Yeah, that’s a beautiful story. I love it. You know, in Sufism, the relationship between courage and trust is very interesting because trust is seen as a divine quality, something we receive and fill with and express, but we don’t manufacture, we don’t create it ourselves. Courage, however, is a human quality, but we can’t run on courage because it comes from us. You know, there’s a limited amount of fuel for that. And so courage is our willingness to try something unknown until we can have enough experience that the trust rises up.
You know, it’s like if you walk on a bridge and you’re not sure, you know, it’s a rope bridge and it’s swaying. The courage is to step on that bridge, and then the trust comes as we walk on the bridge and we go, oh, yeah, the bridge is holding me up. It’s solid. And so I don’t want people to try. I want people to know that if you don’t feel trust, that’s okay, you know, but is it reasonable? Do you think you have enough courage, enough fuel and the courage to be able to experience it, enough to be able to develop the trust?
And that’s what your clients are looking for in you. Like you’re asking them not to trust you blindly or to have courage forever, but to like have enough courage to try this out until they get their own footing.
Melinda: Now, as we evolve our businesses and as we discover, you know, what offers resonate with us that we want to bring to the world what offers support our clients and the best way to get the results. So as we’re going through our business development, there’s going to be offers that we have and then they go by the wayside. And the way we used to do our coaching packages is not going to be anymore. Then we’re going to have new services. And what happens when a client comes along that wants a service you no longer offer? Like how do you recommend coaches handle that? Because we want to stay true to what we know in our business and our model and our values. And then that whole, you know, what do they need? What do they want? How do you recommend coaches handle that?
Mark: So this is really interesting because this came up for a client of ours in our learning community. They had been approached by an organization, a church community actually, that they had done things for before. And the church came back and, you know, after quite a break and said, hey, can you do this workshop series for our membership? And here’s the thing. Most people who ask for something like that, they don’t really have clarity. There’s this thing that they think they want because they know it and that’s what they know how to ask for.
If you are willing to not say no to them, but to say yes, but to have some questions and say, well, okay, so what do you, I get it. What is it that you’re really wanting to accomplish? What is it that you’re wanting for your membership? And go into the assessment conversation, you know, what we call sacred selling, the sales conversation, really an assessment. It’s not an attempt to convert or push or convince anybody. You’re trying to discover it. Can I help you?
And in asking those questions and getting clear on what they’re trying to accomplish, usually, usually what happens is that you can discover that their needs can be met by one of your newer offers. You could say, you know what I’d like to actually, instead of that old thing that we used to do, I’d like to recommend to you the latest version, like the thing that’s evolved and is, I think, much more powerful and much more up to date in terms of the way that I work. And they’re not going to say no to that.
Melinda: Yeah, I love diving in. It’s like, okay, I hear what you’re saying. One of my favorite questions is, why do you think that you need that? What do you believe you’re going to get when you experience that old program or old offer or old version, whatever? And just in asking that quiz, like, oh, well, I want it because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you’re like, ah, okay, well, with this, this is how we address exactly that. So you’re going to get that handle and so just put on your coach hat and get curious with them.
Mark: That’s exactly right. Clients are experts in their problem, not in the solution, you know, and it’s not that they don’t have the power and the knowingness within us, you know, within them, you know, whether you’re doing spiritual healing or coaching, whatever. Of course we pull things out. We help facilitate them to find that inside them. But if they already knew what would work, it would have already been done and that would have been that you wouldn’t be having the conversation.
The more you can find out about what they’re struggling with and what their current experience is, the more that you can, with integrity and insight, make recommendations for what you think is going to work in terms of how you work and how you want to meet them. And because they feel seen, because they feel cared for, because you’ve been asking questions and hopefully been listening to them in a way that they really do feel witnessed. They’re going to lean into that.
Melinda: Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve been talking about offers, right? They might evolve how we, maybe we customize and maybe you have something set. We’ve got our customer success path and we’ve got all those things. Earlier in the conversation, you know, we started talking about that heart centered approach, and we want to be very truthful and lean into our knowingness to support our clients in the best way possible. How do you, you balance and consistently keep that heart centered approach while maintaining profitability and competitiveness? How do you bring that world together?
Mark: Yeah, well, I try not to bring that world together. I think that’s a losing game.
Melinda: Interesting.
Mark: I don’t mean the profitability, but I mean the competitiveness. So from my perspective, it’s not about bringing the heart or love into business. It’s about discovering that the heart and the love are already there. Like, where can we spot it? Is love available even here? Everything is about relationship. If you are focused on competitiveness and profitability primarily, or even if they have equal billing with the heart, what happens is that you’re going to be trying to get the sale. You’re going to be ending up, even in some subtle ways, trying to convince people to buy.
And when that happens is that you inevitably get some people who aren’t happy. Yeah, you end up dealing with refunds, with people leaving, people not saying good things about you. Or even if they’re not actively saying bad things, they’re just silent. There’s been quite a few times where I’ve talked to someone and they’ve come to me and they’re saying, I think I want to work with you, and I’ll ask a bunch of questions. I’m like, you don’t need to work with me. Like, go enjoy what you’ve got for six months. Like, go chill out. You’ve been working too hard for too long. Like, don’t keep pushing, you know?
And they’re like, oh, my God, that’s so right. And they’ll rest and they’ll go away, and then they feel great, and then referrals come and then they trust you. If you can have your clients needs at heart, I don’t mean in a collapsed way. I don’t mean in a martyrish way. I don’t mean in terms of giving yourself away for free, but I mean in a sovereign place from your sense of strength and your sense of empowerment. If you’re really there for them and caring for them, the ones who sign up will stick around and the ones who don’t sign up will have good things to say about you. And that’s what you want in terms of having a long term sustainable business, is to have those relationships of care. Having a tapestry woven around your business, of relationships of care.
Melinda: Yeah, I love that. And it’s just a remindset, right. The mindset that relationships and love are at the heart of the business. And I find that they can be at the heart of profitability and at the heart of competitiveness. So when it comes to profitability, another guest that we had on Just Between Coaches, Barbara Huson, she has this incredible thing. I read it in one of her books years ago, and it stuck with me. You can either have a comfort motive or a profit motive, but you can’t have both.
And so that profit motive, it’s like, oh, yeah, the profit motive helps me to do the things that are out of my comfort zone in my business in service to those that I can help. So it helps me to expand my offerings. It helps me to come up with the next program that I’m going to introduce into my model. It helps me to find a way to reach a wider audience or a different audience. And so being committed to the profit motive, not my comfort motive, I still take the heart centered approach, but I’m doing things outside of my comfort zone that will inevitably lead to profitability.
Mark: Yeah, I agree with most of that. We all have different paths, right? People work with things in different ways. I’m just wanting to widen the lens in terms of how I would work with that is like, I wouldn’t say it’s a profit motive. You know, I used to be a paramedic years ago, and there’s a bunch of different vital signs that you want to pay attention to and a patient when you’re caring for them. And profit is one of the vital signs. But if I was going to be focused on just one vital sign, it creates a tunnel vision and it can take you out of your heart. I think for a lot of people, especially because there’s survival issues up it, most people haven’t really healed all their issues with money.
And so what I like to say is one of the most important, and this comes from Sufism. One of the most important qualities a human can develop is the ability to lean into discomfort without trying to soothe it or get rid of it. And so I agree with that discomfort. But is it in service to profit or is profit one of the vital signs? But it’s really in service to like a deep care for the world around us, for the people that we’re wanting to help, and that we, ourselves and our business are included in that circle of care and that we have to be cared for also. And so for me, that takes out the competition, it takes out the potential to be tunnel visioned on the money and broadens the field that we’re working in.
Melinda: Yeah. And I love that point that you made, is that it’s not the only vital sign that we look at, right? There’s a slew of them, and it’s going to be different vital signs for different people for why you started your business to begin with. From day one, I knew I wanted to have a seven figure business because I knew that who I was going to become along the way, that was what was driving this and how I was going to serve a mass amount of people. That was important to me. Not always, but I think profitability impact relationships, business values.
You know, there’s a slew of vital signs, and it’s important to look at all of them. And then you’re right. What’s the energy we’re bringing to this? It’s why I have that plaque. Right? Taking care of hearts while taking care of business. Every morning I see it so that I know heart first. Heart and business coexist together. Heart and money coexist together. And I’m just like, it’s a both end world, Melinda. It’s a both end world, and it’s the energy that we bring to it.
Mark: Exactly. Exactly. I mean, like everyone else, I can get caught up. Like, if I’m too profit focused, I don’t feel good inside. It throws me off. And I don’t think that’s what your guest was saying. She was saying, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable to make things work sometimes. And, you know, if we’re paying attention, there are whatever vital sign you’re looking at, there may be uncomfortable things you need to look at in your business to make sure that all the vital signs and profitability is definitely one of them.
And so fundamentally, I agree with it. I know that for the folks that we work with, the survival need can either have them avoiding it. Like, if I have to focus on profit, they’re going to end up avoiding it, or they’ll tunnel vision on it. And I want people’s vision to be wider. I want them to, you know, open their being up to really embrace everything that the business is asking.
Melinda: Beautiful. Well, let’s summarize some of the things that we’re talking about today so far. I love how we dove in with what heart centered business means. And I love the distinction that you gave, you know, with capitalism, it brought money and control centered to it. But at the heart centered business, it’s about relationships and love being at the heart of everything. And it doesn’t mean you’re not looking at the practical. We’re looking at those day to day actions, and we’re doing it from that place where that is the heart is behind all of it.
We got into a really great conversation with needs versus wants, and I love how we talked about the pushback, and I love that question that you reminded us. What are you trying to solve for? And then helping to explore the enoughness with our folks. We covered some frameworks about how you can keep assessing what your true client needs are over time. I love the conversation that we got in about customizing packages or how that plays into all of this and the beautiful discussion of courage and trust and what that factors in, and then the fun banter with the heart centered approach, profitability and all of that.
Mark, are there any parting words that you have for our listeners on our topic today?
Mark: The thing that I opened my book with Heart Centered Business, is this statement that says if you have issues with business, you have reason. Like, I don’t want people to have to get over their issues with business and try to kind of run roughshod over it, trying to make it work. I want everyone to trust the wisdom and sometimes our hesitation and our resistance. Well, I would say every time has wisdom in it. But I also want to encourage people to lean in, to ask the question, is love available even here? Is there a pathway through this aspect of business with love? And can I then let go of the toxic thing that I either encountered or learned in some place?
Melinda: Beautiful. Thank you for listening to this episode of Just Between Coaches, and also a big thank you to Mark Silver for this incredible conversation. You can find out more about him at heartofbusiness.com. That’s heartofbusiness.com. And in the show notes, you’ll find links to his website, other great resources, and to his book, Heart Centered Business. Mark, thanks so much for coming to this show.
Mark: I was so delighted. Thank you.
Melinda: I’m Melinda Cohan and you’ve been listening to Just Between Coaches. Just Between Coaches is part of the Mirasee FM podcast network, which also includes such shows as Once Upon A Business, and Neuroscience of Coaching. To catch the great episodes on Just Between Coaches, please follow us on Mirasee FM’s YouTube channel or your favorite podcast player. And if you enjoyed the show, please leave us a comment or a starred review. It is the best way to help us get these ideas to more people. Thank you and see you next time.